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pay off devices early. T-T-Mobile. Hi everyone.

1:01

I wanted to extend a personal invitation

1:03

for you to join me and a

1:05

bunch of other really cool indie podcasters

1:07

in the beautiful Berkshires for the Berkshire

1:09

Podcast Festival. This is going on the

1:11

weekend of October 18th through 20th. It's

1:15

going to be like this really

1:17

intimate podcasting event with live shows,

1:19

panels, meet and greet, studio tours,

1:21

special sessions. It's going to be

1:23

really cool. So here's a little

1:25

taste of the lineup. We've got

1:27

true crime bullshit, Generation Y, crime

1:29

lines, JV Club, the Karen and

1:31

Ellen letters, truth and justice, murder she

1:33

told, the trail went cold and a

1:36

bunch more. I'm also going to be

1:38

doing a live show with Alvin from

1:40

Affirmative Murder on Saturday night. That's going

1:42

to be really fun. This festival is

1:44

also raising funds for the Northern Berkshire

1:47

Community Coalition and DNA Solves. So your

1:49

dollars are going to some good stuff.

1:51

In addition to the event itself, I'm

1:53

super jazzed to get up to this

1:56

part of the country, especially because it

1:58

is going to be. Prime

2:00

leaf peeping season people. Berkshire County

2:02

is in Western Massachusetts. They've got

2:04

a really cool art scene, lots

2:06

of excellent farm to table dining.

2:08

I'm personally excited to do some

2:11

antiquing with my mom, because my

2:13

mom's coming. And just get some

2:15

solid nature time in. It's

2:17

gonna be a really fun weekend together and

2:19

I hope that you can join us. If

2:21

you don't have tickets yet, you can use

2:24

code FALLINTOTHESOUND to get 20% off. And

2:27

so to buy those tickets, to

2:29

see who's coming, to see the

2:31

lineup and learn more about the

2:33

Berkshires, go to bergshearpodcastfestival.com and we'll

2:35

see you in October. Wine

2:38

and Crime contains graphic and

2:40

explicit content, which may not

2:43

be suitable for some listeners.

2:45

Listener discretion is advised. You

2:47

are listening to Wine and

2:50

Crime, the

3:03

podcasts where two friends chug wine,

3:05

chat room crime and unleash their

3:08

worst Minnesota accents. And

3:10

wrangle their cats from touching the

3:12

open flame. Your cat is a

3:15

menace. He'll never learn. Ray

3:18

is a menace. He'll never learn. This is

3:20

what Darwin was all about. True. Ray

3:23

will never learn. Bill wants to make shirts that

3:26

say, Beans can't learn, because he says that

3:28

Beans can't learn, but I say that Beans

3:30

can learn, so I want a Beans can

3:32

learn shirt. And then he'll wear

3:34

his Beans can't learn shirt, and then we'll

3:36

just fight all the time. Anyway. That's what

3:38

you need in a marriage. It are two

3:40

shirts that cause you to fight all the

3:43

time. Or that highlight your fights, so strangers

3:45

can ask you about it. And then it'll

3:47

just start the fight anew.

3:50

Ask me about my Beans. My

3:53

husband and I always wear our Beans shirts

3:56

when we go to Disney. I do need

3:58

a shirt. This is ask me. about

4:00

my peepees. Uh,

4:03

that could for sure be Wine and Crime

4:05

merch. Ask me

4:07

about my beans and my trip that

4:10

my husband and I took last winter

4:12

to Walt Disney World, California. Just

4:15

long time. No, that's Orlando. Alright.

4:18

Or, I mean, Orlando. Ask

4:23

me about our trip to Epcot

4:25

and Universal. Ask me about

4:27

how drunk I got drinking around the world at

4:29

Epcot. Ask me how many dole

4:31

whips I had at Disneyland. Yum! We

4:35

gotta go. I need a dole whip.

4:38

Yeah, anyway, this, I don't know,

4:40

I don't know what's happening. You're

4:42

Amanda. I'm Amanda, I'm

4:44

Amanda, and I was overcome by some

4:46

kind of elder

4:49

boomer, married, deep

4:52

swamp. Swamp town,

4:54

senior season. My

4:59

name is Susan the senior season. I'm

5:01

Lucy, I'm trying to stay far

5:04

away from Matt, whatever that is.

5:06

I'm Lucy, and I'm just trying

5:08

to keep up with whatever ADHD

5:10

runaway train you're on at the

5:12

moment. I'm

5:15

hanging on by a thread. Honestly,

5:17

this is how I know you're a fucking real

5:19

one, because I launch into a bit and you're

5:21

just like, alright, I'm in. I'm rolling with it.

5:25

But like, hard same. Duh!

5:28

What are we gonna do? Resist a bit? I

5:31

start singing a Sarah McLaughlin song and

5:33

you jump right in. Somebody's gotta be

5:35

your backup, somebody's gotta do all the

5:37

unnecessary riffs. Somebody,

5:40

it's somebody's job, why not

5:42

mine? It's yours, babe. You

5:45

got the job. I worked hard

5:47

for this. You've

5:49

been auditioning for this job? My

5:51

whole life. For 25 years. Oh,

5:53

way longer than that. Although

5:56

I know with my new haircut I do look 25. I'm

5:58

just saying how long we've known each other. Yes,

6:01

accurate. Which is

6:03

what makes today's episode, see

6:06

how it all circles back, so fun because

6:08

we have another gals pick this week. We do,

6:10

we do. This one's mine. Yeah. It's

6:13

not fun like the one Lucy picked.

6:18

I don't know why I do this

6:21

to myself, but today we are discussing

6:23

framing fuckery. And

6:26

my God, you know, framing

6:28

shows up predominantly in the

6:31

law enforcement communities. Wouldn't

6:34

you know it? Same. Turns

6:39

out it's a lot easier to

6:42

frame someone when you have all

6:44

the resources, all the

6:46

access to all the evidence. All

6:48

the urviters. Urviters. That

6:51

was one of the so fascinating things

6:54

about the Denver crime lab when

6:56

we went there. They were talking

6:58

about like the checks

7:00

and balances processes that they have

7:02

to make absolutely

7:04

certain that evidence cannot

7:06

be handled, tampered with,

7:08

fucked around with by

7:10

law enforcement. And

7:13

how challenging that process can be

7:15

because this crime lab is funded

7:17

under the same like budget as

7:19

the Denver PD as most crime

7:22

labs are in most major cities.

7:24

And so it's like you're,

7:27

you're nonpartisan, like third party science experts on

7:29

the inside just trying to do your jobs

7:31

who care so much about the integrity of

7:34

every item that fucking walks in that door.

7:36

And you're on the inside of that

7:38

system and fighting against that system. It

7:41

was really fast and you're being paid by said

7:43

system, like they keep the lights on and you

7:45

have to be the one to be like, no,

7:47

you can't come in here. It

7:51

just made me feel so good, though, to go

7:53

on that tour, which was hosted entirely by women.

7:55

Yes, it was. Oops, all women. Made

8:01

me feel so like I

8:04

believed them when they when

8:06

they told me things. Believe

8:08

women. Yes. Believe forensic expert

8:10

women. But the fuckery,

8:13

the framing fuckery, man, it

8:15

happens. Attempted framing

8:17

in law enforcement plant near the

8:20

nerds. This

8:22

shit happens all

8:25

the time. Yeah. Yeah. That

8:28

ain't no tinfoil hat. That is

8:30

just the gods out his truth.

8:32

I think this episode could basically

8:34

also be called like evidence tampering.

8:36

Mm hmm. Because it's the same

8:39

thing in reality. It's it's really

8:41

just you tamper with evidence. You

8:43

frame somebody else. It's the same

8:45

thing. Same thing. It's two

8:47

different parts of the same process. Preach.

8:50

So I'm excited

8:52

to talk about this. Yeah.

8:55

Amanda, you want to get us going

8:57

with our wine crime pairing for framing

8:59

fuckery? Why yes, indeed

9:01

I do. And I'm

9:04

going to start with a warning.

9:06

My pairing today is a PowerPoint

9:08

presentation. Oh my God. I wish

9:10

again. Straight up. If

9:13

I could do every case

9:15

in PowerPoint that really

9:17

suited you. I've never followed

9:19

along with one of your cases as well

9:21

as I did when there was an a

9:24

accompanying PowerPoint. I'm put I'm

9:27

I'm putting that PowerPoint on

9:29

Patreon at the five dollar

9:31

and up tiers that people with the access

9:33

to the video episodes can also look at

9:35

the PowerPoint because it's like it's

9:38

up a lot on the screen in the video, but it's

9:40

not the same as like having that tangible

9:43

PowerPoint, that powerful PowerPoint.

9:46

It's very rewarding. Let the

9:48

story just kind of sing on its own. I

9:50

loved it. I am telling you right now. It's

9:54

not the last you'll see of my

9:56

manic PowerPoint. It felt so right that

9:58

you don't fit in. until 1 30

10:00

a.m. Oh my God, my

10:02

most creative hours. What am I going to do? But

10:05

my my pairing today is stupid. I'm

10:08

just it's just it's straight up stupid

10:10

because I couldn't really find what I

10:12

wanted. OK, so I had to just

10:15

make something and then trophy. I had to

10:17

name it my damn self. So

10:21

I pondered upon a cocktail

10:23

recipe that felt right

10:26

in truth, not for the topic,

10:29

but for the weather at the

10:32

time that this is being released. OK,

10:36

OK. So like that that summer

10:38

to fall, you know, the leaves

10:40

are turning, but you still get

10:42

some of them hot days. Huh?

10:45

And it's perfect for sitting on the

10:47

front porch and reading a smutty book.

10:50

Really soaking in the last of the summer

10:53

sunshine rays. Yeah. And maybe your

10:55

smutty book is some kind of

10:57

mysterious story about some someone being

11:00

framed. And maybe it's called It

11:02

Wasn't Me. And then maybe

11:04

that's what you name the cocktail. And then maybe you

11:06

get the shaggy song stuck in your head. And

11:10

so maybe you put this cocktail together and

11:12

then go down a little rabbit hole about

11:14

shaggy. And now your entire wine segment is

11:17

this quick cocktail recipe. And then some

11:19

information about the singer shaggy. Oh

11:22

my God, I love. Maybe you're

11:24

off. Maybe you're off your meds.

11:29

Oh, fuck it's. Maybe

11:32

maybe I humbly request you take

11:34

your man. Maybe

11:37

you better call in for that refill girl.

11:41

So I present

11:44

the It Wasn't Me. And

11:46

this is a simple cocktail made

11:48

with gin. I would recommend

11:51

Hendrix for this one,

11:53

because Hendrix is less piney in flavor

11:55

than, say, a tank array. That's

11:58

why Hendrix is often. Hendrix and tonics

12:00

or Hendrix and sodas are often garnished

12:03

with cucumber instead of lime, whereas

12:05

tankarets are often garnished with cucumber

12:08

because that lime has enough acidity

12:10

and predominant flavor to counteract some

12:12

of the extra pine flavor

12:15

in tankare. Isn't that wild?

12:17

So yeah, I think

12:19

you said that the other way. So Hendrix is

12:22

typically garnished with a cucumber and

12:25

tankare is typically garnished with a lime. Tankare

12:28

has a more predominant pine flavor than

12:31

Hendrix does. Hendrix is a mellower gin.

12:33

That makes so much sense. Also, I

12:35

would love a cocktail garnish with a

12:38

cucumber any day. Oh, so delicious. So

12:40

hydrating. You kidding? So this is made

12:42

with Hendrix soda water. I

12:45

prefer plain soda water and

12:47

pomegranate juice garnished with a sprig of

12:49

rosemary. And if you want to get

12:51

real fancy with it, you

12:53

can plop in some

12:55

of them creepy looking red ass pomegranate seeds.

12:57

Ooh, I don't like those. Right into that

12:59

bad boy. I know, but some people do.

13:03

Okay. Some people do. I

13:05

like them. So I'd recommend in

13:08

a tall pint glass full of ice

13:10

to it about two ounces of gin, but like

13:12

let's be real, pour until your

13:14

heart says stop is my

13:16

recommendation. Or as desired. Pour as desired. A

13:19

pint glass full of ice, then pour your

13:21

soda water over that to about two thirds

13:23

of the way to the top of the

13:26

glass, finished with pomegranate juice, stir it gently

13:28

so as not to blast all the carbonation

13:30

out of the soda. And

13:33

yeah, you can, you can garnish it

13:35

as you see fit, but yeah, rosemary

13:37

pomegranate seeds, got one of them like

13:40

reusable metal straws and copper,

13:44

the copper color, put that in there. It

13:47

is refreshing. It's red and creepy

13:49

looking. It's fucking delicious. Yeah.

13:52

That pomegranate flavor carries a lot.

13:55

A lot of weight. A little pomegranate goes

13:57

along. Yeah. It's not like a

13:59

cranberry. splash where the cranberry is like super

14:01

watery. No, no, no, no, no. It's thick. That's

14:03

why you want to do like mostly soda

14:06

water. Mostly these.

14:08

Mostly these. Obviously this got me thinking

14:10

about Shaggy as I worked on today's

14:13

topic ideas. So I came across this

14:15

article from AV Club that I wanted

14:17

to share to clear up some misconceptions

14:19

about the Nandy smash hit. Shaggy

14:24

maintains that everyone missed the real

14:26

message of it wasn't me. According

14:29

to Shaggy, his classic hit,

14:31

it wasn't me is actually

14:33

an anti cheating song. Today,

14:36

Wednesday, June 7th, 2023, as this was written,

14:40

bold and bald face cheaters without the

14:42

sense to develop an alibi around the

14:44

world have lost a sacred text. In

14:49

a new interview, rapper Shaggy attempts

14:51

to reframe the narrative of his

14:53

hit. It wasn't me. Frame. Oh,

14:56

there it is. It all fits explaining

14:59

that the song status as an adultery

15:01

anthem is actually based on a

15:03

big misconception. That song is

15:05

not a cheating song. It's an

15:07

anti cheating song. Shaggy tells people

15:09

it's just that nobody listened to

15:11

the record to the end. The

15:14

record. I

15:17

might be one of the things where like fucking

15:20

it was a like an opera. It

15:22

might be one of those things

15:25

where it's the long they'll

15:27

call a single, a record. And it's like

15:29

the long full version of it that maybe

15:31

wasn't the radio edit. I don't know. Let's

15:33

keep going. Let's keep

15:36

going. Quote, there is a

15:38

part in the record where it's a conversation between

15:40

two people and you have one guy, which is

15:42

me at that point, giving the bad advice. Like,

15:44

yo bro, how could you get caught? Just say

15:46

it wasn't you. Just tell her it wasn't me.

15:48

Yeah, exactly. And then at the end, the guy

15:50

says, I'm going to tell her that I'm sorry

15:52

for the pain that I've caused. I've been listening

15:54

to your reasoning. It makes no sense at all.

15:56

I'm going to tell her that I'm sorry for

15:58

the pain that I've caused. you might think

16:01

that you're a player, but you're completely lost. So

16:03

it's a back and forth. So the first one

16:05

is like, I'm telling her. Listen to that. Yeah,

16:07

but we didn't get it. We didn't get it.

16:09

I mean, did we not get it or we

16:11

just not care because it was just a catchy

16:14

song that played on KWB every 15

16:16

minutes. It's

16:18

both. Good. I mean,

16:21

great. Shaggy says, nobody hears

16:23

that part. That's what the song says, but

16:25

everybody's just caught up on that. It wasn't

16:27

me. It wasn't me. It's an anti cheating

16:29

song. No one ever really buys into that.

16:31

And I keep explaining it to people. Then

16:33

they go listen to it back and they're

16:36

like, Oh dude, I totally miss that. Okay.

16:40

But what's the lyrics? You may

16:43

think that you're a player, but you're.

16:45

Completely lost. Completely lost.

16:47

Okay. So that's what he's saying.

16:49

That's kind of one of those lyrics. I was like. He

16:52

gave the shitty advice. But Jeff. Yeah,

16:55

you didn't quite know it. Yeah. The bathroom's

16:57

on the right. Yeah.

17:00

Anyway, that's the article from

17:02

AV club. And that was

17:05

my segment. And I'm obviously

17:07

super high. And I'm glad

17:09

you liked it. I

17:11

loved it. And I love all of you. Thank you.

17:15

What's that other Shaggy? Oh.

17:18

Girl, you're my angel. You're

17:21

my darling. No, not that one.

17:23

Shag-alicious. No,

17:25

what's it called? Mr. Boombastic.

17:27

Della Fon-tastic. That one.

17:30

Oh. Mr. Boombastic. Mr. Bombastic.

17:32

Yeah. Oh. That was my

17:35

shit. I love Shaggy so

17:37

much. He's got some bangers.

17:40

We gotta bring him back. Let's bring him back. Well,

17:43

he went on tour with Invoke. Get me Shaggy. Get

17:46

Shaggy. He went

17:48

on tour with Invoke in 2023. So I think he

17:50

is back. But I love

17:52

that that's like why this article came out. Cause he's

17:54

like, I'm going on this tour and I'm going to

17:56

be singing that song. And I want people to finally

17:58

fucking understand. I don't want to be misrepresented. I

18:01

don't want to be framed for being some

18:04

sort of cheating apologist. Exactly! Oh

18:06

my god, this is the most on point

18:09

wine segment I have ever fucking done. Holy

18:12

shit. Well, while I'm riding that wave, should we

18:14

take a quick break to hear a word from

18:16

our sponsors? Yes. Shaggy for

18:18

truth. We're shaggy truthers. We're

18:21

shaggy truthers. Well,

18:23

I am feeling kind of

18:25

shaggy right now. I did get a shaggy

18:27

haircut yesterday. I need a haircut, so we're

18:30

both shaggy. Get a shag from shag.

18:33

Go to shag, stylus shags, and get

18:35

a shag from shag. Maybe

18:37

you'll get shagged afterwards. Oh my

18:39

god, keep all of that in. Let's go to the ad break now. Bye!

18:43

So, just a couple

18:45

days ago, I got a DM from somebody

18:48

that was like, oh my gosh, I'm obsessed

18:50

with your necklace. I have like the gold

18:52

paperclip chain necklace. So cute. Where

18:55

did you get it? I was like,

18:57

girl, Quince. And they added that to

18:59

cart so fast. It's real

19:01

cute. I love

19:03

Quince, and it has made shifting

19:06

my wardrobe from summer to fall

19:08

so easy because these pieces

19:10

are so classic, and they have so much

19:12

more than just clothing. I love their accessories.

19:15

Quince offers timeless and high quality items

19:17

that I adore, ensuring my wardrobe stays

19:20

fresh, and I don't blow my budget.

19:22

They? So, I

19:24

have shopped quite a lot at Quince, and

19:27

I know I've said that before, but I

19:29

get like targeted ads from Quince on my

19:31

social media, and I saw a sweater today.

19:33

It was like, restocked, the boat net cashmere

19:35

sweater. And I was like, cute. Never

19:39

click to add to cart so fast. Literally.

19:42

So they have cashmere sweaters starting at

19:44

50 bucks. They

19:46

have pants for every occasion. You know

19:48

how we feel about pants. Yep. They're

19:51

very comfortable, and they have so many different styles.

19:54

They have washable silk tops. And

19:57

like Amanda said, the jewelry, just the lounge wear.

20:00

everything. Rompers, they have so much cute stuff.

20:02

The best part is that all Quince items

20:04

are priced 50 to 80% less than similar

20:06

brands. So

20:09

by partnering directly with top factories,

20:11

Quince cuts out the cost of

20:13

the middleman and passes the savings

20:15

directly onto us, the customers.

20:18

And if you bristled at the mention of

20:21

factories, I will say

20:23

Quince only works with factories that

20:25

use safe, ethical, and responsible manufacturing

20:27

practices and premium fabrics and finishes,

20:30

which we of course love. So I just ordered

20:32

that boat neck sweater.

20:34

Casual sweater. In LeBron. I

20:38

know I'm gonna wear it at Thanksgiving. Like

20:40

it is not too early to start

20:42

planning your fall wardrobe and you've gotta

20:45

start at Quince. Make switching seasons a

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breeze with Quince's high quality closet essentials.

20:49

Go to quince.com/wine for free shipping on

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returns. quince.com/wine.

21:04

So it's a new season. It's fall. We've

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23:54

Lucy. Background,

23:56

maybe psych, maybe some

23:59

sordid. research

32:00

without getting like a bunch of online

32:02

forums because of course like of

32:06

a framing Would be

32:08

a wrongful conviction and there are a

32:10

lot of people Shouting

32:12

that they're they've been wrongfully convicted or

32:15

their family member has been or blah

32:17

blah blah So like the whole point

32:19

of being framed is that

32:21

nobody officially knows you were framed. You

32:23

know what I mean? So

32:25

there's not a lot of like concrete

32:28

information especially information that's reported by the

32:30

government, right? However,

32:33

the Innocence Project came up a

32:35

lot in the research So

32:37

we talked about the Innocence Project and

32:40

I think our wrongful convictions episode We

32:43

interviewed that guy from the California Innocence

32:45

Project and it was so interesting. Mm-hmm

32:48

So this was founded in 1992 by

32:50

attorneys Peter Neufeld and Barry

32:52

Scheck The

32:54

Innocence Project is an organization that

32:57

uses DNA and other scientific advancements

32:59

to prove Wrongful convictions

33:01

and get innocent people out of prison.

33:03

Mm-hmm. So this is from their website

33:05

quote the Innocence Project works to free

33:07

the innocent Prevent wrongful

33:10

convictions and to create fair

33:12

compassionate and equitable systems of

33:14

justice for everyone Because

33:17

if there's one thing we talk about a lot on

33:19

the show, it's how fucked up or yeah criminal

33:21

justice system is this

33:24

organization has helped free or exonerate

33:26

hundreds of wrongfully convicted people and

33:29

Help to pass transformative state

33:32

laws and federal reforms. Mm-hmm

33:35

So that's kind of all I have for like

33:37

what a frame what a frame an F

33:39

job is but

33:41

now I want to touch on something that I I

33:44

didn't and I really doubt you learned

33:47

about in school as we should have

33:49

and That is the man

33:52

and his assassination Malcolm

33:54

X. Yeah. Yeah, like I

33:56

mean in the like privileged

34:00

all white school we went to,

34:03

you learned about the palatable

34:05

quotes of Martin Luther King.

34:08

Yep. And, you know, like

34:11

Rosa Parks and

34:13

Harriet Tubman. That's basically

34:15

it. I think you were lucky if

34:17

you learned about Harriet Tubman. I

34:19

mean, like learning who she is, but not like

34:21

extensively. Like that's kind of more of like a

34:23

fourth grade, very easily

34:26

digestible. You know what I mean?

34:29

But that's like the extent

34:31

of our education on the

34:33

civil rights movement. And

34:36

it was obviously very whitewashed,

34:38

very. Very whitewashed.

34:41

And also Malcolm

34:43

X said and stood for

34:45

a lot of things that are

34:48

controversial. And

34:50

I'm not like a scholar. So I feel like

34:52

even talking about this is sort of a minefield

34:55

for like what I'm saying. We'll

34:59

kind of get to it, but a

35:01

lot of what he said requires

35:03

critical thinking. There's

35:05

a lot of nuance in there. And there are a lot

35:08

of things that were just straight

35:10

up inflammatory and not

35:12

great. So that's

35:14

probably why the

35:16

public school system doesn't

35:19

really touch on him. But I also

35:22

kind of grew up like thinking

35:24

in my head that Malcolm X was like

35:26

a bad player. Yeah,

35:30

we were taught that essentially. Wow,

35:32

I wasn't taught jack shit about

35:34

him. But during COVID, I watched

35:37

the Denzel Washington movie on

35:39

him on Netflix. And

35:41

it was like, oh my God, this like a

35:44

lot of shit went down. There was

35:46

a lot of consequential events

35:49

happened because of him and surrounding him.

35:52

And I think it's important to know his

35:54

story and know

35:57

his place in American

35:59

history. regardless of

36:01

what you think about like his morals and ethics

36:03

and the ways he went about things. So

36:06

Malcolm X was a black American

36:08

revolutionary, a human rights

36:10

and racial justice activist, and

36:13

a Muslim minister. He

36:15

promoted black empowerment and Islam

36:18

within the African American community.

36:21

And like Martin Luther King Jr., he

36:23

was a prominent figure in the civil

36:25

rights movement, so they had two very

36:28

different ideologies. Like

36:30

for example, and I think

36:32

the simplest one, MLK was

36:34

promoting nonviolence

36:37

and also like racial integration.

36:42

And Malcolm X wasn't

36:45

necessarily promoting nonviolence,

36:48

and he was promoting

36:50

the idea of black Americans moving

36:52

back to Africa, or

36:55

at least and in the meantime having

36:57

like completely separate, totally

37:01

separate like countries essentially.

37:04

Two different states for white people and black people. So

37:07

I don't want to like align those two too

37:09

much, but I think in the

37:11

context of white women who grew

37:13

up in the Midwest, it's like,

37:16

oh, I never heard about him. I kind of thought

37:19

like my perception was that he was the counterpart

37:21

of Martin Luther King Jr. That's

37:24

obviously very oversimplification, but

37:27

yeah, really interesting. And at

37:29

the very least, I would recommend watching the

37:32

movie. It's just called Malcolm X, but I

37:35

don't know. I didn't know fucking anything about

37:37

him. Also like

37:39

MLK, he was assassinated. So

37:43

here's a little bit of backstory with

37:45

Malcolm. He was born Malcolm Little. He

37:47

had a bit of a rough childhood. He

37:50

was bouncing between foster homes. He

37:52

spent six years in prison in his

37:55

20s for larceny and burglary. But

37:57

while he was on the inside.

38:00

he met some

38:02

folks, started talking, began studying

38:04

Islam. And

38:06

so he joined the Nation of Islam or the

38:08

NOI and changed his

38:10

name from Malcolm Little. So Little

38:13

being what he referred to later

38:15

as his quote, white slave master

38:17

name to Malcolm X. And

38:20

a lot of people who were followers of

38:22

the NOI changed their

38:25

last name to the letter X

38:27

or a succession of X's or X

38:30

attached to a number. That

38:33

was just one of their tenants until, I

38:35

think, forgive me if I'm wrong, but I

38:37

think it's until they reach like a certain

38:40

level, then they can choose

38:42

their own like different name

38:44

that's not their quote unquote white slave

38:46

master name, but it's like a more

38:48

appropriate name that's not just the letter

38:50

X. Right. So he

38:52

was Malcolm X. And

38:54

here's a quote from him about

38:56

his time in prison. Quote, between

38:59

Mr. Muhammad's teachings, Elijah Muhammad was

39:01

the then leader of the Nation

39:03

of Islam. Okay. Between

39:06

Mr. Muhammad's teachings, my correspondence,

39:08

my visitors and my readings

39:10

of books, months passed

39:12

without me, my even thinking about being

39:14

imprisoned. In fact, up to then, I'd

39:16

never been so truly free in my

39:19

life. So yeah, transformative

39:21

experience for sure. Very transformative.

39:23

It helped him serve his

39:25

time in prison with

39:27

purpose. And then when he, well, while

39:29

he was still in prison, he penned

39:32

a letter to President Truman opposing the

39:34

Korean War. And then when

39:36

he got out, he became a

39:38

minister of the NOIs temples in

39:40

Detroit, Philadelphia, and Harlem. He

39:43

was like shaking things up in the

39:45

black community. And basically for this reason,

39:47

if we boil everything down, it was

39:49

for this reason, the FBI

39:51

was on his ass by 1953.

39:56

So going back to the Nation of Islam

39:58

quick, the NOI is an... African

40:00

American religious and political organization formed

40:02

in 1930 with the intent to

40:04

improve the

40:07

economic and spiritual conditions of the

40:10

African American community in the United

40:12

States. So

40:14

Malcolm X joined from prison

40:16

in 1952. By

40:19

the 1960s, Malcolm had become

40:21

so disillusioned with the NOI

40:23

and also had some beef with the

40:26

founder, or sorry, not the founder, the

40:28

leader of the NOI, Elijah Muhammad. So

40:31

there's a lot that happened in the interim that

40:33

I can't get into. It's obviously a very, it's

40:36

a complicated story because this is a real man

40:38

who led a very public facing

40:41

life and a lot went down.

40:43

Lots of shit happened. So fast forward

40:46

to 1964, Malcolm had begun

40:48

to doubt the leadership of Elijah

40:51

Muhammad after there were revelations of

40:53

sexual misconduct on Elijah's behalf, including

40:56

extramarital affairs, which was

40:59

against the teachings of

41:02

the nation of Islam and

41:04

allegations of child sexual

41:06

abuse. So they

41:08

then pressured Malcolm X to help cover

41:10

it up, like don't say anything, like

41:12

be cool about it. And

41:15

also Malcolm was having kind of

41:17

increasing suspicions that the NOI was

41:19

built on lies, extortion,

41:22

exploitation, et cetera. So

41:25

after he left, he founded

41:28

the Muslim Mosque Incorporated and

41:30

the Organization of Afro-American Unity.

41:33

After he left, he was receiving a bunch of death

41:35

threats from the NOI. And on February 14th,

41:37

1965, his house burned down. Oh,

41:42

how odd. What a

41:44

coincidence. A week

41:46

later on February 21st,

41:49

1965, he

41:51

was about to address the Organization

41:53

of Afro-American Unity at the Audubon

41:55

Ballroom in Harlem. His

41:59

pregnant wife, she was pregnant with

42:01

twins and his three

42:03

daughters were in the audience. Malcolm

42:06

X, so I guess someone

42:08

in this 400 person audience

42:11

yelled, quote, n

42:14

word slur, get your hand out

42:16

of my pocket. So

42:18

that's what was yelled and then people

42:20

like turned and there was like her

42:22

fuffle and Malcolm

42:25

X's security team tried to like

42:27

calm down the situation while

42:29

this kerfuffle was happening. Someone

42:32

went up on stage, approached Malcolm and

42:34

shot him in the chest with a

42:36

sawed off shotgun. Oh my

42:39

God. And then immediately after that two

42:41

other men then ran up to the

42:43

stage and fired as

42:45

well with semi automatic handguns.

42:48

So he was ambushed. He was fatally shot. He

42:50

was shot a total of 21 times. My God,

42:52

which includes

42:54

all the extra like buckshot from the

42:56

shotgun, but like he was

42:58

fucked up and it was right

43:00

in front of his little girls

43:02

and his wife. My God. He

43:05

was 39 years old. In

43:08

the days after the assassination, three men,

43:10

okay, this gets a little bit

43:12

confusing because all three of these men go by

43:14

two different names. I'm

43:16

going to use their, this sounds

43:19

bad. I'm going to use their white

43:21

slave bastard names because

43:24

that's what all the articles referred to them

43:26

as. And that's just how it is. And

43:28

I'm so sorry. So Talmage

43:30

Hire, also known as Thomas

43:32

Hagen and was later known

43:35

as Mujahideed Abdul Halim. So

43:38

there's Hire. There's a

43:40

man named Norman

43:43

3X Butler. Cause again, with the X the

43:46

X's Butler also

43:48

known as Muhammad Aziz and

43:51

Thomas 15X

43:53

Johnson, also known as

43:56

Khalil Islam. So

43:58

Hire, Butler and Johnson. were

44:00

arrested and charged for the murder of Malcolm

44:02

X. They were all identified as

44:05

members of the NOI, so it would be

44:07

like kind of logical. The NOI's been threatening

44:09

Malcolm X. They sent some guys

44:11

in to assassinate him. Makes

44:14

sense. Hire was shot in the

44:16

leg by a bodyguard and apprehended by members

44:18

of the crowd as he tried to escape

44:20

before the police arrived. The two

44:23

other men, Butler and Johnson, were

44:25

arrested a week later after witnesses

44:27

allegedly identified the two men as

44:29

the other gunman. So

44:33

Butler and Johnson were identified, apprehended

44:35

because of eyewitnesses and

44:40

presumably some information that the

44:42

police already had. So that's

44:45

why those two guys were arrested. Law enforcement

44:47

at the time framed Malcolm's assassination as the

44:49

result of an ongoing dispute between him and

44:51

the NOI since he had left the group

44:53

in 1964 on bad terms. During

44:56

the 1966 trial, prosecutors

44:59

said that Johnson, who had

45:02

been Malcolm's driver at one

45:04

point, was the assassin

45:06

who fired the fatal gunshot blast.

45:09

Hire and Butler were said to have

45:12

followed closely behind Johnson and fired their

45:14

pistols. 10 eyewitnesses were

45:16

said to have seen Johnson, Butler, or

45:18

both, but the eyewitness

45:20

statements all contradicted each other

45:22

and there was no actual

45:24

physical evidence tying them either

45:27

to the murder or the crime scene.

45:31

Both men maintained that they were innocent,

45:33

so both men meaning Butler and Johnson,

45:36

and offered credible alibis, which were backed

45:38

up by testimony from their spouses, their

45:41

friends, like several other people. So

45:44

in fact, this is

45:46

what happened, at the time of the shooting,

45:49

Butler had like hurt

45:51

his leg and was at home resting.

45:55

The doctor who was treating him because of

45:57

his injured leg, this was not the shooting

45:59

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Age healthy with OneSkin. Speaking

1:00:55

of important events,

1:00:57

cases, assassinations, murders

1:00:59

and history that I knew

1:01:01

nothing about, this case

1:01:04

is wild. And

1:01:06

you know, I'm an ACAB girly, but like I

1:01:09

got to reiterate, the cops are not your friends.

1:01:13

Every chance. Uh huh. For

1:01:16

this case, we have to go back

1:01:18

to 2005 New Orleans in the aftermath

1:01:20

of Hurricane Katrina. Oh God. Mm hmm.

1:01:24

What a shit show. It was

1:01:26

like for our younger listeners

1:01:28

who may not have been glued to the

1:01:30

TV like much of America was at this

1:01:33

time. I mean, I remember like the

1:01:35

smell of my parents living room in

1:01:38

upstate New York when this happened, like watching

1:01:41

the footage of it.

1:01:43

I remember watching it on my little dorm

1:01:45

room TV. It was 2005. Horrifying

1:01:49

what happened to that city. This

1:01:51

was a storm of massive destruction

1:01:53

that left the city in absolute

1:01:56

turmoil. And it was eventually

1:01:58

determined that. like the levees

1:02:01

had not been properly maintained because they

1:02:04

were not provided with the

1:02:06

proper like resources, budgetary resources to

1:02:08

keep them up to

1:02:10

date. The fact that so much of that

1:02:12

destruction was preventable is... Yeah,

1:02:15

just because of infrastructure not

1:02:17

being a priority to the

1:02:20

government for whatever fucking reason. And

1:02:23

yeah, it just wreaked havoc on New

1:02:25

Orleans. There are still spots

1:02:27

in New Orleans that have not recovered

1:02:29

from the destruction. The

1:02:32

response to this natural disaster was

1:02:34

universally criticized as being slow and

1:02:36

ineffective as well as neglectful of

1:02:38

the city's most vulnerable populations. George

1:02:40

Bush hates black people. Uh-huh.

1:02:43

It's like the last sane

1:02:45

thing that Kanye has ever said. Yeah,

1:02:47

true. Like the last

1:02:50

time we heard a sane thing from

1:02:52

Kanye. That's the last vestige of like

1:02:54

college dropout, Kanye. Yeah. Yeah.

1:02:57

There was a golden era

1:02:59

and it has long since

1:03:01

passed. It has. But

1:03:04

in New Orleans, poor, segregated,

1:03:07

predominantly black and brown neighborhoods

1:03:09

saw the worst damage, specifically

1:03:12

the Lower Ninth Ward. Resources

1:03:14

not only leading

1:03:16

up to this were being hoarded

1:03:18

and spent on what

1:03:21

white supremacy is deemed more affluent

1:03:23

and important neighborhoods to get resources. And

1:03:27

in the aftermath, the same thing

1:03:29

was happening. And there was not

1:03:31

equitable distribution of these

1:03:33

resources, which if equity

1:03:36

had been part of the equation, they

1:03:38

would have gotten the most resources. They

1:03:40

had the most people in distress and

1:03:43

in need there, even

1:03:46

from the evacuation and long after the

1:03:48

evacuation. And they just, the resources were

1:03:50

not provided. The footage that I'm like

1:03:53

recalling of these neighborhoods with like people

1:03:55

not even sleeping on

1:03:57

their roofs, swimming, waiting for rescue.

1:04:00

Carrying their pets. Yeah. On

1:04:03

their roof, spray painting, like help.

1:04:05

Help for days. And that,

1:04:07

I mean, this is the

1:04:10

whole swath of these communities. These

1:04:12

are older people with like oxygen

1:04:14

tanks and who can't

1:04:16

walk and. Disabled people. Everyone.

1:04:20

Everyone. Babies, everyone. That

1:04:23

was the most apocalyptic. It

1:04:26

was shocking. It was really shocking.

1:04:28

This was obviously a huge stain

1:04:30

on George W. Bush's already trash

1:04:32

presidency. When he initially launched

1:04:35

FEMA to go help, they were like, okay,

1:04:37

we have, get everyone to the

1:04:39

Superdome or whatever. That sports

1:04:41

stadium, we have enough resources to

1:04:43

sustain 15,000 people for three days.

1:04:47

15,000 people for three days. The entire city's

1:04:50

underwater. And that fucking dome was a nightmare

1:04:52

in itself. Yeah, it was

1:04:54

so awful. Nearly 2000 people

1:04:57

died from the effects

1:04:59

of the storm. And that. 2000

1:05:01

people. Uh-huh. And that doesn't

1:05:03

account for street and

1:05:05

state violence that took lives

1:05:08

in the chaos following the

1:05:10

storm. Weren't there like white dudes just

1:05:12

out with guns shooting black people? Yep.

1:05:16

Is that what we're getting to? No, but

1:05:18

yes, that was happening. There were a lot

1:05:20

of like outside agitators that were fucking coming

1:05:23

in and shit like that. I mean, that happens at

1:05:26

every nationally televised

1:05:29

opportunity. But different,

1:05:31

but the same. One

1:05:33

such incident of state violence was

1:05:35

the Danziger Bridge shooting. The Danziger

1:05:37

Bridge is a vertical lift bridge

1:05:39

that carries seven vehicular lanes of

1:05:41

US Route 90 across

1:05:43

the industrial canal into New Orleans,

1:05:46

Louisiana. So this is

1:05:48

like the major vehicular through

1:05:50

line from neighborhoods

1:05:52

kind of outside of the city and

1:05:55

into the city of New Orleans, Nalins.

1:05:57

I feel like the 394. Yeah.

1:06:00

essentially. It's not a footbridge.

1:06:02

It's a busy bridge for car traffic.

1:06:05

And a bridge over water. Yep.

1:06:07

And at, it's, at

1:06:10

this time is extraordinarily

1:06:12

backed up because parts of the

1:06:14

bridge, like the bridge

1:06:16

itself is higher above the

1:06:19

water line. So everybody was evacuating.

1:06:21

Well yeah, but like, you know,

1:06:23

the new water line. Yeah. The

1:06:26

new water line. Everybody was evacuating

1:06:29

on this route and

1:06:31

people were like literally sleeping out

1:06:34

there just to stay up out

1:06:36

of the water and like make their way toward

1:06:39

the evacuation route. If they couldn't drive. Yeah. Like

1:06:41

it was packed. It's busy. So on the morning

1:06:43

of September 4th, 2005, barely

1:06:45

a week, I think it was six

1:06:48

days after Katrina had made landfall, the

1:06:50

city had been experiencing a rise in

1:06:52

crime, mostly out of desperation for food

1:06:55

and supplies. But some incidents were certainly

1:06:57

assholes taking advantage of the chaotic circumstances

1:06:59

and doing fucked up shit. Like I'm

1:07:02

not saying that that didn't and doesn't

1:07:04

happen. Of course it

1:07:06

does. It's just not the overwhelming

1:07:09

cause of, of, of crime. And

1:07:11

even in these desperate moments, the

1:07:14

details on what brought police to

1:07:16

the bridge in the first place

1:07:18

are muddy because they kept changing

1:07:20

their stories. And there were

1:07:22

so many different reports and

1:07:24

also reports on

1:07:27

crime in general right after Katrina

1:07:29

were way overblown

1:07:31

and sensationalized. And the majority

1:07:33

of these stories were about

1:07:35

black and brown people. So

1:07:38

there it was just a very racially

1:07:40

charged, obviously racist reporting

1:07:43

that was like making

1:07:45

this nationwide thing. I mean, I

1:07:47

even remember watching footage of

1:07:50

like looters and the, you

1:07:52

know, the news talking about like how

1:07:55

out of control violent crime is in

1:07:57

the city and not without the context

1:07:59

of these. people are starving. No one

1:08:01

is rescuing them. They've been hiding

1:08:05

on their rooftops for days. They

1:08:07

need food and water. They have children. They

1:08:10

have pets. It's like, that's not the story

1:08:12

we're getting. The story we're getting is all

1:08:14

of these marginalized people are looting. Like

1:08:17

that was just the standard. It still is the standard now. And

1:08:21

it's like, yes, they are looting, but

1:08:23

fucking wouldn't you? Loot

1:08:25

the corpse. Burn

1:08:27

that target down. I

1:08:29

don't give a fuck if you

1:08:31

need it to fucking be able

1:08:33

to continue living. It's life

1:08:35

over property every fucking time. These people were

1:08:38

literally starving and abandoned by every

1:08:41

level of government

1:08:43

as they're dying and drowning in

1:08:45

their homes. Like, oh, they're

1:08:49

looting. Okay, go fuck yourself. I just go fuck

1:08:51

yourself. I would have done a lot worse. And

1:08:54

gotten away with it because of my porcelain skin.

1:08:57

That's the problem. That's the problem. The

1:09:00

details that brought police to the

1:09:02

bridge are muddy because there's all

1:09:05

these different reports. It's all over

1:09:07

rot. But even people in the

1:09:09

area were like, yeah, there were

1:09:11

probably reports of shots fired and

1:09:13

we'll kind of get to it

1:09:15

because this was a

1:09:18

very marginalized area with a

1:09:20

lot of drug activity, sex work.

1:09:22

It was not a

1:09:24

super safe spot. There probably were

1:09:27

shots fired. So there probably were shots

1:09:29

fired. Because everyone's protecting their literal lives.

1:09:31

Yeah. I mean, people are just out

1:09:33

here surviving in horrific circumstances. And not

1:09:35

defending the gun violence, but like, yeah,

1:09:37

of course. It's just this

1:09:39

is bound to happen. So they

1:09:41

responded to, it's probably gunshots

1:09:43

that brought them there. There were

1:09:45

reports coming in of a crew of

1:09:47

like, alleged snipers.

1:09:51

Picking off relief aid workers using

1:09:53

the now heavily congested bridge to

1:09:55

help evacuees and deliver

1:09:57

aid. The fuck? This was

1:10:00

the first report from the police. Then another

1:10:02

report came out quickly after saying, oh no, no,

1:10:04

it was actually five men who were looting the

1:10:07

aid trucks and, you

1:10:09

know, shooting at

1:10:11

the aid workers. And when police intervened,

1:10:13

the looters shot at us and

1:10:16

we returned fire. First, I

1:10:18

said, killing four and wounding several others on

1:10:20

the bridge. Then the story changed again because

1:10:23

only two people had died in the gunfire,

1:10:25

not four, but multiple

1:10:27

people were injured. But that was their

1:10:29

final, their kind of their final story

1:10:31

was we came upon looters. We

1:10:34

shot at them. Two of them

1:10:36

died. That

1:10:38

case closed. Okay. Okay. So according

1:10:40

to them, they also weren't

1:10:43

responding to just shots fired. They were responding

1:10:45

to another report that two officers were down

1:10:47

on the bridge. Oh, so

1:10:49

they were coming in hot anyway. Yep. They

1:10:52

claimed that an officer from a neighboring parish

1:10:54

had requested backup in response to quote, several

1:10:56

persons shooting from the bridge and targeting aid

1:10:58

workers on boats in the water below. And

1:11:01

that two officers had been hit in,

1:11:04

in the gunfire. They quote, patted

1:11:06

themselves on the back for neutralizing the threat

1:11:08

and went on with their business. The

1:11:11

officers involved in the shooting were

1:11:14

Kenneth Bowen, Robert Falcon, Jr., Robert

1:11:17

Giusevius, Jr.,

1:11:22

Anthony Villavaso, Michael

1:11:24

Hunter, Ignatius Hills, and Robert

1:11:26

Barrios. These are the cops

1:11:28

that shot the two people

1:11:30

and injured others. Correct.

1:11:33

They shot a lot of people.

1:11:35

They killed two. Okay. From in

1:11:37

the gunfire. The

1:11:40

two quote, unquote shooters, according to them,

1:11:42

like that they had rolled up on

1:11:44

killed were 40 year old Ronald Madison,

1:11:46

who had been mentally disabled

1:11:49

since birth and lived in the full

1:11:51

time care of his mother, who was

1:11:53

described as quote, a childlike innocent who

1:11:55

made a rare foray from home that

1:11:57

day in a desperate effort, desperate. effort

1:12:00

for relief from the flood. Oh my

1:12:02

god. He was walking across the bridge

1:12:04

with his brother who

1:12:06

survived and will get to his brother.

1:12:09

Wait, he was making a rare foray

1:12:11

from home? Yeah, like Ronald. No, Ronald

1:12:13

was. Ronald rarely ever wanted

1:12:16

to leave his home, his house. I

1:12:18

mean, same. Yeah, just

1:12:20

fucking heartbreaking. The other deceased

1:12:22

was a 17-year-old boy named

1:12:25

James Brissett who was on

1:12:27

the bridge with his friend

1:12:29

and his friend's family.

1:12:32

Just trying to leave? They were trying to leave,

1:12:35

trying to go get some supplies. I think one

1:12:37

of them had left a wallet back closer to

1:12:39

their home so they were going to get this

1:12:41

wallet and then leave because

1:12:44

they had been sheltering in a motel

1:12:46

that they'd been placed in in that

1:12:48

neighborhood. And we'll get to the description

1:12:51

of what the conditions were like in the motel where they

1:12:53

were just cramming in hundreds of

1:12:55

people at a time in these

1:12:59

botched efforts to help

1:13:01

evacuate or provide relief to these neighborhoods. It's

1:13:04

possible that was kind of a local effort

1:13:06

too. Yeah. Like motel owner was like, we

1:13:08

have a motel, everyone come here, we're trying

1:13:10

to help you. But then it was like

1:13:12

800 people there. Yeah,

1:13:15

it's a tough situation because

1:13:17

everybody lives a different, everybody's

1:13:20

got different issues, everybody's got

1:13:22

different needs. And

1:13:25

when you put all of that in one

1:13:28

chaotic situation without the resources to really help

1:13:30

them get what they need, it's going to

1:13:32

be chaos. Yeah, you don't have power, you

1:13:34

don't have heat, you don't have clean water.

1:13:37

Oh yeah, the generator kept going off on the hotel. Everything's

1:13:39

wet. It's awful. It's

1:13:42

awful. Yeah. I mean, not

1:13:45

to be an alarmist, but

1:13:47

that shit's going

1:13:49

to happen more increasingly with all this

1:13:52

climate change. And until we do

1:13:54

something to slow it down, there's going to be all

1:13:56

these... A lot of people will die. It's going to

1:13:58

be this on a bigger. hover

1:40:00

it up. And so they all squealed like

1:40:02

fucking canaries to get all these super

1:40:05

light prison sentences so

1:40:07

they could just probably fucking retire with their pension,

1:40:09

you know, walk away with their pensions and go

1:40:11

live out the rest of their lives. Judge

1:40:13

Kurt D. Engelhardt sentence Falcone to

1:40:15

65 years in prison, Bowen

1:40:18

and justus to 40 years,

1:40:21

Villa Vasso to 38 years and Kaufman

1:40:23

to six years. Kaufman was a

1:40:26

helper. So those were the ones that pulled

1:40:28

the trigger. Okay. That makes me feel a

1:40:31

little bit better. Yeah. Engelhardt

1:40:33

was critical of how the prosecution had

1:40:36

been pursued, stating that he was quote,

1:40:38

astonished and deeply troubled by the number

1:40:40

of plea bargains offered to other participants

1:40:42

who served as witnesses. Federal

1:40:44

prosecutors responded that the plea bargains had

1:40:47

been a necessary act for

1:40:49

them because this case had been so difficult and

1:40:52

was essentially cold when they took over

1:40:54

responsibility for the case. When the FBI

1:40:56

took it over, it had been cold

1:40:59

for, you know, three or

1:41:01

four years at that point. Cold? Yeah. Although

1:41:04

federal prosecutors recommended sentence reductions for both Hunter

1:41:06

and Hills due to their cooperation, their requests

1:41:08

were rejected. So in both cases, they were

1:41:11

like, you sentence them to four years. I

1:41:13

think they should only serve two. And the

1:41:15

judge was like, they're serving four. Next.

1:41:18

Yeah. Like, what the fuck are you, you're,

1:41:20

why are you wasting my time with this

1:41:23

bullshit? I feel very much fucked up. Yes.

1:41:26

And contributed to these

1:41:28

men getting away with cold

1:41:30

blooded murder for a lot of years. Yeah.

1:41:33

And four years is nothing. So like take

1:41:35

your four and get pack in. You want

1:41:37

me to reduce it to two? What is

1:41:39

this a fucking joke? Also, you'll be out

1:41:41

in two if you just behave anyway, you

1:41:43

little bitch. Yeah. Shut the fuck up. I

1:41:45

just, I can't, I can't.

1:41:49

As for the victims and surviving family

1:41:51

members, settlements were made. I'm not

1:41:54

sure how exactly they were distributed

1:41:56

because some reports just said undisclosed

1:41:58

amounts while others pointed out that

1:42:00

the city or and

1:42:02

this yeah the city had paid out 13.3 million dollars

1:42:04

on settlements.

1:42:07

I just don't know like who

1:42:09

got what and in

1:42:11

what amount. Yeah and also in my

1:42:13

case too the state paid as well

1:42:15

it was like the city and the

1:42:17

state so. Yeah so it's probably both

1:42:20

and yeah I mean I'm

1:42:22

glad there was compensation to these folks but like

1:42:24

that compensation should be paired

1:42:26

with actual like repair

1:42:28

that breaks down the system of policing that

1:42:31

allowed this shit to happen in the first

1:42:33

place like people fleeing

1:42:35

the devastation of hurricane Katrina

1:42:37

being gunned down on

1:42:39

a bridge is like one

1:42:42

of that's some sick shit that's some sick

1:42:44

shit and it's happening all over the fucking

1:42:46

world man. And you cannot you cannot say

1:42:49

that that is not racially motivated. Of course

1:42:51

it is. Given the the

1:42:53

the not to use the phrase black and

1:42:55

white but like the black and white circumstances

1:42:58

that occurred in this case on this

1:43:00

bridge at this particular moment in time.

1:43:03

At the end of the day these they

1:43:06

were cruising around like off-duty cops

1:43:08

cruising around in plain clothes not

1:43:10

even off-duty cops in some case.

1:43:12

Yeah in a fucking budget rental

1:43:14

truck. That's so janky. Who responded

1:43:16

to a call and wanted to

1:43:18

go play cowboy and it was

1:43:20

in a neighborhood where they felt

1:43:23

they felt that they

1:43:25

could do that with impunity and

1:43:28

like that's where the racial and like

1:43:30

the systemic racism gets to it. They

1:43:32

showed up there against

1:43:34

every like protocol the very few

1:43:36

that are already in place got

1:43:39

literally guns blazing thinking like oh well

1:43:41

this won't matter because they

1:43:44

were shooting at us we'll just tell them they were

1:43:46

shooting at us because they don't people have always cops

1:43:48

have gone away with this kind of shit for fucking

1:43:50

ever. Yeah. But enough people survived and spoke up and

1:43:52

there was you know this is 2005 not everybody had

1:43:55

like a camera phone. I was just gonna

1:43:57

say had there been had this happened

1:44:00

in 2024, everyone would know. Overwhelming

1:44:03

evidence. Yeah. Yeah. I mean,

1:44:05

George Floyd. There was no

1:44:07

disputing what we saw in that video. The

1:44:10

world saw what happened. But yeah,

1:44:12

so like we didn't have that. We

1:44:14

didn't have somebody going live from the

1:44:16

scene that wasn't that news crew that

1:44:19

caught some footage of it in like

1:44:21

pretty decent definition. Like

1:44:23

there really was not any denying what

1:44:25

was happening there. But it didn't include

1:44:27

what all the quote unquote context that

1:44:30

like the cops were trying to provide

1:44:32

leading up to the situation that they

1:44:34

brought cameras up when they heard gunshots.

1:44:37

And they only heard gunshots when the police started shooting

1:44:39

and they had already claimed Oh, but we were responding

1:44:41

to a shooting in the area and they were shooting

1:44:43

at us. They didn't see that. That

1:44:45

would have been a pretty key detail in the

1:44:47

original trial, I think but our case, but we

1:44:49

didn't have that. But yeah, I don't know. It's

1:44:52

just it's fucked up. I hate it. It's fucked

1:44:54

up. But at least and hopefully,

1:44:57

the people who were responsible, all of

1:44:59

the people who were responsible and not

1:45:01

only the incident in the first place,

1:45:03

but also the offenders getting away with

1:45:05

it for so long. Yeah,

1:45:07

have see have seen

1:45:09

their their justice come to them. So

1:45:11

I just hope they fucking never

1:45:14

get a good night's sleep and have hemorrhoids for

1:45:16

the rest of their lives. Fiery

1:45:18

hemorrhoids. Hot. Hot.

1:45:21

So that's my case. Well, thank

1:45:23

you to us. To Amanda

1:45:26

for this wine crime pairing. This

1:45:28

was a deuce. Sorry.

1:45:32

Yeah, and I love you. We'll be back

1:45:34

next week with hopefully something a little more

1:45:36

lighthearted, but I haven't looked at the calendar.

1:45:38

So I don't know. Anybody's

1:45:41

gonna be. We'll see you then.

1:45:43

See you next week. Bye bye.

1:45:45

Thanks for listening to wine and

1:45:47

crime. Our cover art is by

1:45:49

Danielle Sylvan. Music by Phil Young

1:45:51

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1:45:53

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1:45:55

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1:45:59

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