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BUTTERY. Exclusions apply. See site for

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details. Hello,

1:36

guilty feminists. This is Deborah. People always say

1:39

that the fifth character in Sex and the

1:41

City is New York. Well, in the guilty

1:43

feminist, I'd say the audience are the extra

1:45

co-host. This has never been more

1:47

true than in this episode from York. At

1:50

times more of a raucous town hall than

1:52

a traditional guilty feminist. It was recorded during

1:54

our 2022 UK tour. So we

1:56

have essentially one extra guest and

1:58

in a first an unexpected. stand-up set

2:00

from the audience, god this show

2:03

was absolutely riotous, and I

2:05

believe a top-notch bit of banter with a man

2:07

in the audience who I was obviously encouraging to

2:09

become a better feminist. This

2:11

has made all the better by the

2:13

amazing co-stars, barnstorming performances and a fascinating

2:15

insight into the world of Dularism. I

2:17

really hope you enjoy listening and we'll

2:19

see you next week with a brand

2:21

new episode. I'm

2:40

a feminist but... Hello

2:45

York, we're back. We're

2:48

back inside of New York and it's

2:50

wonderful to be here. I'm a feminist

2:52

but very recently I

2:54

had a bad experience in a

2:57

fitting room where I

2:59

was trying to buy something that didn't look as good

3:01

as I needed it to and

3:04

I got a bit upset and then

3:06

when I left the shop I was

3:08

walking away and the woman who'd been

3:11

serving me ran out of the shop

3:13

after me like I'd left something behind

3:15

and she came up and went I just need you to

3:17

know that you're a really beautiful

3:19

woman and I just need you

3:21

to know but I need you to hear it and I need you

3:23

to believe me and she looked into

3:26

my eyes and I hugged her and all

3:28

I could think was oh my god I

3:30

hope she doesn't recognize me. Like she's gonna

3:32

go back and say to her friends like

3:34

I met her but she's not what you'd

3:36

think like everything she tells

3:38

us to do and she's like all those lovely

3:40

wonderful things she's not like that she's just crying

3:42

on the floor of a fitting room like all

3:45

of us it's

3:47

just disappointing. I

3:49

say recently it was this morning. I'm

3:53

a feminist but and

3:58

sometimes I resent

4:01

how empowered Gen Z women

4:03

are. Largely

4:06

because I really feel jealous and

4:08

that it's not fair that I

4:10

had to spend my teens and

4:13

twenties making a mountain of

4:15

toilet paper in lieu because of

4:17

how mortifying the thought was of

4:19

another woman even hearing the trickling

4:21

tinkle of your weaving. And

4:24

then you find out that the new generation

4:26

of women couldn't give a shit about. They're

4:29

so empowered that they'll

4:31

be like, does anyone want to borrow

4:33

my moon carp? It's massive! I

4:37

feel the valley of levels of empowerment between me

4:39

and them is too deep. I

4:42

absolutely agree and the way they love

4:44

their bodies, cough. Absolutely disgusting. They just

4:46

love all of their bodies. I'm learning

4:48

from them but resentful. Of course they

4:50

love all of their bodies because their

4:53

bodies are 12. What's

4:57

not to love? I should have gone for an older

4:59

age there I feel like. I

5:01

thought you meant you resent... This bit's improvised. I

5:04

thought you meant you've resent like 21 year olds.

5:06

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Was she true? No, I

5:08

retract this. I'm not with her. You know,

5:10

and Gen Z, I just checked, it's 10

5:12

to 24 so it wasn't as inappropriate as

5:15

it sounded. Just give us a

5:17

trophy Gen Z. Just give us a trophy Gen Z. Just give us a 12 year old

5:19

out there with jowls. It's trophy Gen

5:21

Z, yeah. Listen to how empowered those

5:23

cheers are. Yeah. It's

5:25

delightful please. We want it. We want to drink your blood.

5:29

Yeah, it is. I envy it. Sorry,

5:31

I finished. I'm

5:34

a feminist but... I'm

5:39

recently single, right, and I found that like,

5:42

if I see that a man is losing interest

5:44

in me, I'll let him

5:46

explain crypto to me. That

5:51

usually just gets it all back up. I

5:54

have done that more than once with the offside rule. It's

5:56

the best. It's like, oh you don't like what I

5:58

said. I don't get it. NFTs. Oh,

6:02

tell me. I'm

6:08

a feminist, but... Early

6:13

on today in the dressing room, I think I

6:15

did body shame Taylor Swift. I

6:18

know, not in the way that you're thinking, but...

6:20

Jen said the gasping. I know. I've

6:22

lost the room already. But I was

6:24

talking about how she used to be the love of my life.

6:27

And Deb said, why she no longer love your life.

6:29

And I said, because I found out she's way too

6:31

tall. And being a short king, I just

6:33

couldn't live like that. I

6:36

still believe it's going to happen. Doesn't

6:38

that just mean you're like the perfect height for

6:41

motorboating? I

6:45

don't get that joke. A perfect height for what? We'll

6:49

draw your diagram backstage. I

6:52

cannot believe... You explain this to me. I'm a feminist, but can

6:54

you explain it to me backstage? Because I

6:56

think it's rude. We'll

6:58

see how the night goes. For motorboating. Oh,

7:02

I just understood it. Yeah, because I mean, everyone in this

7:04

audience was like, surely not with a rack like that, Deborah,

7:06

you must be at least book smart on it. I

7:11

don't actually have. Fuck off. They

7:15

are D. They're a small D. They're

7:17

a D minus. I'm telling you. For

7:20

my frame, they could be... It's a pass at GCSE.

7:27

Is it my turn? It's your turn, then. I'm

7:29

a feminist, but... When

7:33

I bought my first car, guys...

7:37

First person in my family's buy a new car. Literally

7:39

the most shameful thing that my father could think of

7:41

as a used car salesman. And

7:44

he is everything you're thinking is. And

7:47

racist. When

7:49

I was signing the paperwork, the man selling the car to

7:52

me says, so what title shall

7:54

I put down? Miss, Mrs

7:56

or Ms? And I said, Miss. And

7:59

he said, oh, you look a bit... young for that and

8:02

what I should have said was for what feminism but

8:05

what I said was thank you are

8:10

we ready start the show welcome

8:13

welcome welcome to the guilty

8:15

feminist York big round

8:17

of applause for Jessica Foster Q

8:20

grace Petrie Celia A B and

8:22

Kerry Bridget McLean for incredible women

8:24

will be seeing a lot more

8:27

of this evening this

8:29

goes on again like

8:34

she's got a bit later there

8:39

you go there you go hello

8:41

York look we're back in person

8:43

and here we are I want

8:45

to touch somebody thank you don't

8:48

worry it's not a biblical healing

8:50

but I do I do have

8:52

an incredible

8:54

cape not

8:57

all superheroes wear capes but a lot of us

8:59

do and I wear this

9:01

mostly because I want you to feel you've had your money's

9:04

worth you know you've come

9:06

out some of you booked a babysitter I

9:08

you know I want to make an effort if you

9:10

want one of these despicable Daisy on Etsy

9:12

I only I'm not advertising for how just

9:14

people ask people tweet every night I'm saving

9:17

your time just give a cheer

9:19

if you listen to the girls feminist if

9:22

you don't know what you're at

9:25

hey notice how those cheers do

9:27

sound less feminist less

9:30

empowered that is very true so

9:32

this is a podcast about our

9:34

noble goals as 21st century feminists and

9:36

a hypocrisies and insecurities which undermine

9:38

them that's right

9:40

my friends and tonight we

9:42

are here recording live in

9:45

York we're very very very excited

9:47

to be here I wanted to start

9:49

the show by asking has anybody done

9:51

an act of feminism recently and I

9:54

asked this with a caveat I'm going

9:56

to ask you for an act of

9:58

feminism that you

10:00

would feel would intimidate nobody. An

10:03

act of feminism that anyone in

10:05

this room could leap over. An act of

10:07

feminism that will encourage others to

10:10

say, I can definitely do better than that.

10:12

Has anyone done such a mini act of feminism

10:14

they'd be happy to tell us about? I

10:17

want my 13 year old son to stop

10:19

being a dickhead. Okay,

10:23

you got your 13 year old son to stop being

10:25

a dickhead. Could I ask

10:27

further questions? Already,

10:31

already they're very happy about it. In

10:34

what ways was this dickheadery manifesting

10:36

itself? Yes.

11:00

I cried when I told them he was being

11:02

a dickhead. So

11:08

just for the people at home, what's your

11:11

name? Emmy. Emmy

11:13

just told a story that her 13 year

11:15

old son got a girlfriend, was dominating her time.

11:18

She politely texted and said, I

11:20

need to spend time with other people as well.

11:23

He cried and said, I'm a terrible boyfriend. And

11:25

Emmy said, stop being a

11:27

dickhead. I

11:30

want to hug him a bit though. Does

11:36

anyone else want to hug him a bit? I

11:39

feel like, no. Women down here are saying no

11:41

hugging. He needs

11:43

to know. Has he sort

11:46

of gone now? Okay, I see.

11:48

And is he being more balanced? Oh

11:55

my God. Oh my God. He did. And

11:57

now she texted and said, you're not talking

11:59

to me. enough and

12:01

what is he doing now? Uh,

12:04

trying to be as nice as possible and just

12:06

getting reminders on his phone. And

12:09

now this child is trying to be as nice as

12:11

possible, he's setting reminders on his phone. I'm,

12:14

I'm a feminist but I'm

12:16

totally on his side. Like I'm

12:18

100% with this boy who is,

12:21

who is, I do feel we need to be, you know,

12:23

but listen, well done in saying

12:25

like it's not all about you, you know, if you're

12:27

in a relationship with somebody you have

12:30

to give as well as take

12:32

that, that is it. That's a great thing. But

12:34

also make sure that he knows that

12:37

he's allowed things to like he

12:41

can break up with her if he wants. You

12:46

don't think that will happen. They're going to

12:48

get married. They're 13 and done. Well

12:52

done Yorkshire. Um, what was the

12:54

other one? You

12:57

made a poster about how

13:02

to go for a wee in the wild. People loved that one. People

13:10

loved that one. I

13:13

think that's, that might be the most perfectly

13:15

pitched one I've ever heard because sometimes people

13:17

go, we were recently in

13:19

Canterbury and somebody put up a hat and

13:22

she said, I've just co-founded. I'm going to

13:24

stop you there because that's intimidating immediately. Most

13:26

people will never co-found anything. Okay.

13:28

And then sometimes people say like, you

13:30

know, I only shaved one leg. Um,

13:33

and I feel like it's, is,

13:36

is it an act of feminism? Really? I

13:39

think that's perfectly pitched. We all

13:41

feel it's accessible, but none of us

13:43

thought to do it. It's

13:45

lovely. So why did you

13:48

make this poster? Is this for women

13:50

and other people who are sons, penises

13:52

to squat? and

14:01

swap and also if you menstruate it's

14:03

much harder. So we work for

14:06

teenagers in the outdoors, so I made

14:08

a poster to teach those teenagers. So it's on

14:10

the back of the door so they don't have

14:12

to ask a question. They can

14:15

re-divide it before we then take them out

14:17

for the day and into the wild. Okay,

14:19

so just to say for the listeners at home, it's

14:24

a lot harder if you're a person who

14:26

has to squat and or menstruate.

14:28

So there's a poster on the back of

14:31

the door. Now, does anyone have any follow-up

14:33

questions here? Because I do. What's

14:37

best practice? I really wish we didn't have

14:39

a guest tonight now because I feel like

14:41

this would be the dream. Wouldn't

14:44

it? Wouldn't it? I have

14:46

follow-up questions as to what's best practice,

14:48

what should I be doing? Should I

14:50

be called upon to urinate rurally? If

14:55

that were a thing. I'm not a very rural

14:57

person, I'll be honest. I'm

14:59

not very, you know, I'll go

15:01

for a walk in the country and enjoy that very

15:03

much, especially in lovely Yorkshire. Love it, love it, absolutely.

15:06

But I won't walk very far

15:08

from a lavatory. I'll

15:11

walk in a lavatorial radius.

15:15

Does anyone else feel that? Yes, absolutely. Who's the,

15:17

if you just give us a cheer if you're the kind of person

15:19

that needs to know how to

15:21

urinate further away because you might go

15:24

wild. There's a lot

15:26

of people who need your services. I

15:30

don't know how easy it is for you to get to me, but

15:32

I feel like I want to hear with them. Is there any chance

15:34

you could come down and I could sit on the edge of the

15:36

stage? Now,

15:39

I'll come down. I don't think it's easy for

15:41

you to get up, but, oh, is

15:43

it? Oh, great, oh, oh,

15:45

oh. There's stairs there. Excellent.

15:50

Come forward, come forward. What's

15:52

your name? What's

15:57

your name? Jill, Big Red Floss

15:59

with Jill, everybody. You're

16:04

wearing a feminist t-shirt, Tilly Takeover 2022

16:07

Women's Edition. What's that? It

16:10

was a women's skydiving event to encourage

16:12

women into skydiving. Of course it was.

16:16

I have skydived. But you might have

16:18

noticed you probably had a male instructor,

16:21

a male pilot, a male cameraman. There

16:23

aren't that many women in the

16:25

world of aviation, so this event was to encourage more

16:27

women to do that as well. Absolutely

16:31

wonderful because it's true. The whole crew

16:34

were men and they kept making jokes

16:36

that were like... There

16:39

were jokes that were like... They

16:41

were funny in the 80s? Yes,

16:43

absolutely. What a great way to describe their jokes, funny in

16:45

the 80s. But it

16:47

was things like, oh... They

16:49

were joking about how sometimes Mike

16:52

doesn't open the parachute. It's

16:54

not like sometimes he doesn't, but we've all been waiting for

16:56

the day, he's not going to open the parachute. He's been

16:59

really down today, his dog died. And I'm like, if you're

17:01

strapped to Mike, which I was, that is

17:03

not that hilarious, I'll be

17:05

honest. You're just like, please

17:07

stop saying it. And I was like, ha,

17:09

ha, ha, okay, you really have to stop

17:11

now. And they wouldn't. They took that as

17:13

a cue, like a little brother, to escalate

17:16

the jokes. So I'm delighted you're doing that.

17:18

Do you jump out of planes? Yeah, I've done about 700

17:20

skydives. Could

17:25

I do one with you? I'm

17:27

not an instructor, but I do have friends who

17:29

are women that you could go and skydive with.

17:31

Really? I could do a lady drop. Yeah,

17:35

with a lady. So we had a lady pilot and

17:37

everything. Did you? To

17:40

the whole crew. Could we

17:42

do a guilty feminist sort of collaboration?

17:48

Because I would jump again. I would

17:50

jump again. I absolutely loved it. You

17:53

were so interesting that we've got

17:55

here to talk about one thing.

18:00

Come and sit down. Stuart's saying we don't have

18:02

time. Oh no, he's not. He's saying have a

18:04

microphone. Come and sit down, Jill. Is

18:07

he bringing us a microphone? I don't know. We

18:10

will have a... No. Okay, let's just keep

18:12

going. Okay. So, now

18:15

you're up here. Is there any way we could

18:17

demonstrate? Thank you so much, Stuart. How...

18:19

What's the way to pee in the

18:21

wild if you're a woman or another

18:23

sort of person who needs to squat?

18:26

So the first thing you need to do is to find the

18:28

sheltered position. Sure. So, key. Behind

18:33

a wall or a bush is good. Yes. And

18:36

then, important things to consider, put your

18:38

bottom downhill of your feet. Oh.

18:42

So you don't end up in a puddle. Great tip. Or,

18:45

if you're someone who is standing up, you have to

18:47

think about the wind direction because you don't want it

18:49

to blow up back at you. Thus,

18:53

thus the idiom, pissing in the wind. And

18:58

then you have to squat, which is the hardest bit of

19:00

the whole process. Okay. I

19:02

mean, you're on a denim skirt, so you may not want to show us now. But

19:06

what's the deal with that? You

19:08

basically... You need to squat to get your

19:11

bottom as far back as possible so you don't

19:13

wee on your own clothes and your own shoes.

19:15

Mm. So, you might also

19:18

want to... We put on our poster

19:20

that you might want to pull your

19:22

clothes forward a little bit as well.

19:24

So, it's clothes forward, bum back. Exactly.

19:27

But downhill, the wrong way. Yeah. See,

19:30

I already see a scene in a sitcom

19:32

that's beginning... Oh,

19:35

you can. There's a handy tree. You might

19:38

want to brace yourself against a tree for some support. Okay. So, squat

19:40

and brace. Yeah. No,

19:44

these are very useful suggestions for all the people who cheered

19:46

and said they would be peeing outdoors. I

19:49

will never be doing this, Jill. Like, never. Right,

19:51

I think they're not weeing in the world. I would

19:53

rather pee falling out of a plane, honestly. I am

19:56

not at all interested in peeing outdoors. I

20:00

am interested in feminism. Some

20:03

of these people here are natural campers. And

20:06

it's why they live in beautiful Yorkshire,

20:08

no doubt. We put the poster on

20:10

the internet. Anybody

20:12

to download for free so they can all have the advice.

20:15

Oh great. Okay, so where do we go

20:17

if we want to see the pictures and

20:19

the diagrams? You go to the Crane Dale

20:21

Centre website, which is crane-dale.com. crane-dale.com. That's

20:24

my colleague cheering me. Yes.

20:27

And you have to find the download section. And

20:29

it's in the student downloads because we work with

20:31

lots of young people. Feels like you've buried it

20:33

quite deep. I

20:35

feel it should be on TikTok with

20:37

videos. Can you tell the

20:39

top of our business is not females?

20:42

Oh, okay. So what we're going to need is

20:45

some of you funky Gen Zs to make TikTok

20:47

videos where you extract this information but direct people

20:49

back to their website. Will anyone volunteer to do

20:51

that? Look at our

20:54

Facebook page. Look at our Facebook page? Okay.

20:57

The Crane Dale Facebook page. Crane Dale. How

20:59

do we spell that? Like the bird, the crane. And

21:01

then Dale like the Yorkshire. Shear dales. Okay,

21:03

great. So look at Crane Dale. But

21:05

if any young child person would make

21:07

it into a TikTok video, would say

21:10

maybe turn it into a dance. These

21:13

are just suggestions, gang. But I

21:15

hear they're very popular on the Tik and the talk. Bajil,

21:18

you've been phenomenal. Thank you very much. Bigger

21:21

applause, Bajil. We

21:25

have never done that before. We've

21:28

never ever had anybody out

21:30

before. But

21:32

it was too good to pass up. Now

21:35

I'm going to need some help from,

21:37

and it's got to be a straight

21:39

cisgendered man and I'll tell you why.

21:42

We are, I've started trying out

21:44

experimentally something called human Google. So

21:46

say we need to know something

21:49

really quickly. We

21:52

ask human Google. And the reason

21:54

it has to be a cisgendered straight man is

21:56

I tried to get women to do it and

21:59

they wouldn't interrupt. So I would come back to the

22:01

major station and go, did you find out? And they'd go, oh

22:03

yes, but I didn't like to say because she was doing something

22:05

else. Now what I found is if I get a straight man

22:07

to do it, he has

22:09

absolutely no problem with

22:11

just going, I found it, even if it's in

22:13

the middle of a punch line. Doesn't care. So

22:17

I'm gonna need a man to volunteer,

22:19

a straight man to volunteer, a

22:22

man who likes to

22:25

be right and doesn't mind interrupting.

22:27

Any volunteers? Yeah,

22:30

I've literally never had to wait longer than a

22:32

half a second. So you've

22:34

said yes to that. You enjoy that?

22:36

You enjoy those things. Okay, what's your name? Matthew.

22:39

Okay, great. And Matthew, this is how human

22:41

Google works. If you've

22:44

got a good reception in here, we just get

22:46

you to Google things, but the reception's not very

22:48

good in here, so it's like this instead. I'll

22:50

ask you a question, Matthew, and you will answer

22:52

with the first thing that comes into your head,

22:54

but very authoritatively, and we will accept that as

22:57

a fact. Because

22:59

that's how Google works anyway, isn't it?

23:01

Let's be absolutely honest. Just give

23:03

us a cheer if you ever have to do research in your

23:05

job. Give us a cheer

23:07

if you accept what's on Google. That's

23:10

how the world works now. So

23:12

Matthew, I will

23:14

remember you, I will think of you as Matthew Perry,

23:17

like Chandler. If I call you Chandler, that's one of

23:19

your names now. So

23:21

Matthew, for example, who wrote A Room of

23:23

One's Own? So

23:25

we've got? That's what we will

23:28

now accept as fact. Of course,

23:30

we know it was in fact Virginia

23:32

Woolf, of course. But don't worry about that, and

23:34

that was a really good guess. It

23:36

could have been her. I

23:39

think that was an educated guess, wasn't it?

23:41

And we didn't say Dr. Seuss. You're

23:44

an English teacher! Matthew!

23:51

That's a horrific, horrific guess. That

23:53

is... Sylvia

23:59

Plath is rolling in. in her bell jar. I'm

24:02

telling you that for sure. Now Matthew

24:04

I'm shocked. Matthew do you have any camera experience?

24:07

Great. Okay so two

24:09

of our acts tonight, Kiri Pritchard-McLean

24:12

and Jessica Foster-Cue, both need their

24:14

set recorded for a really

24:16

big glamorous fancy gig that they're up

24:18

for. But they don't just

24:20

want you know me going like that in

24:23

the wings. They need a proper cameraman to

24:25

come and film it for them on their

24:27

phone. So Matthew that's you

24:29

and the reason that's you normally I would

24:31

obviously open it up to the crowd if

24:34

anything like this happened but because you're

24:36

an English teacher who doesn't know the

24:38

difference between an English teacher who's

24:40

obviously a feminist because you're here. Are

24:43

you in fact a feminist? Don't applaud him

24:46

before he said he is. The bar is

24:48

so low for men. He's here, he came.

24:51

Oh God! He's picked up his own

24:53

baby. Oh he's an

24:55

amazing feminist. Stop

24:58

applauding him he didn't know Virginia

25:00

Woolf. Jesus Christ the bar

25:03

is low for men. Matthew, would

25:08

you call yourself a feminist? You're

25:10

trying. It's

25:13

not the right answer Matthew. If

25:15

I were a men's rights activist conference and

25:18

someone pointed at me and said are you a men's rights

25:20

activist? I'd be like yes I fucking am. I love rights,

25:22

more rights for men. The

25:26

confidence of a man to go not

25:28

really. In this

25:31

room you could

25:33

be killed. There's

25:35

enough of us if we just did a

25:37

slight crush in your direction no one would

25:39

go down for it Matthew. Now Matthew you're

25:41

trying to be a feminist.

25:49

You're doing your best. Are

25:51

you? If one

25:53

of your English students said they were doing

25:55

their best but they thought

25:58

that Charles Dickens had written 50

26:00

Shades of Grey. Would

26:03

you be like, do you be

26:05

like, far a B, a B, fine,

26:07

six out of 10? No, you wouldn't. You'd be like,

26:10

get out of my classroom. Go

26:12

and look, come back when you know the name

26:14

of the author, wouldn't you? Yeah,

26:17

okay, great. So Matthew, you

26:19

are now in charge of filming. Have you genuinely had

26:21

any experience filming? Photography,

26:24

okay, but you can hold, you think you can hold

26:26

it? Well, you know the angle. You're

26:30

overstating your credentials again, Matthew, and it's, are

26:33

you good? Okay, does

26:35

anyone think they're gonna be better than Matthew? Yes? Is

26:40

that a woman? Yes?

26:43

You're gonna be better than Matthew? Has anyone got video experience? Yeah,

26:46

you have. Okay, all right. Jess,

26:50

do you want it to be funny, because it's Matthew,

26:52

or do you want it to be good, because this

26:55

woman is videographer? Good, okay,

26:57

what's your name? Allie,

26:59

you've done this before. Okay,

27:08

Matthew just said yes, and

27:11

it turns out he just take a selfie.

27:15

Have you done this professionally, only for work?

27:17

That is the definition of professionally. That's

27:21

what professionally means. Women,

27:26

really, we've gotta sort this shit out.

27:28

There's so much work to do. We are, I

27:30

mean, Roe versus Wade on the horizon, and we've

27:32

gotta be, come

27:34

on people. All

27:37

right, so Allie, have

27:40

you done this professionally? Yes.

27:44

Yes, you have. So Allie,

27:47

would you, would you mind, I don't know, where would

27:49

you like her, Jess? Just

27:51

where she is. Stuart's saying where you are, but

27:53

we've gotta get your phone back to her, yeah?

27:56

Yeah, okay. All right, feminism

27:58

will get the phone back to you, the sisterhood. We'll take it back. You're

28:00

actually in a good place to shoot this I think. Okay,

28:03

can I have your phone? Stuart's

28:05

doing it. Stuart's doing it. The

28:07

patriarchy is here All

28:11

right, so Stuart where are you? I

28:14

can't see Stuart What's

28:16

happening? Yay, come on Stuart all

28:20

right, so That's where Ali

28:22

is now Ali We

28:25

need to know you are recording and you feel comfortable because

28:27

I don't want you going. Oh, no I didn't really get

28:29

it because I but I didn't like to say I don't

28:32

want that Ali you here's your friend

28:35

Donna Donna you seem very authoritative when it

28:37

comes to Ali I'm

28:39

sure you apologize left right and center for yourself,

28:42

but you believe in Ali So

28:44

can you make sure quality control that

28:46

if Ali doesn't know what she's doing

28:48

something goes wrong. You just shout out,

28:50

okay? Because it's

28:52

important This is the physicist

28:54

feminism at work together. We're going to get

28:56

Jess Foster cue an incredible job A

29:00

job that means she's going to get paid a lot of

29:02

money and flown to a very glamorous location a Job

29:06

that means she gets time off from her small child Do

29:09

we understand the stakes? Okay,

29:12

all right. We ready is

29:14

it going is it recording is it red? Oh, and she's

29:16

put the light on she doesn't know what she's doing Okay

29:21

I You

29:28

ready for some stand-up comedy Then

29:31

please welcome to the stage a guilty feminist

29:33

Absolute favorite a legend you will have seen

29:35

her on qr You will have seen her

29:37

on live at the Apollo But now you're

29:40

seeing her live here at the York Barber

29:42

Can I the guilty feminist put your hands

29:44

together and make incredible woohooing noises for one

29:46

of my very favorite comedians in the world?

29:48

It's Jessica Foster cue a

29:57

Puppet seamless Very

30:00

natural, seamless. Hello York!

30:04

It's nice to be back doing this again, isn't

30:06

it? Yes, bit

30:08

bloody lovely. So

30:11

nice to all be squished in altogether

30:13

on mass again. I

30:15

think it is. I don't know if this

30:17

is controversial, but I don't think that human

30:19

beings were designed to be a bit scared

30:21

for two years. Everybody's

30:25

had a bonkers last three years. I've had an

30:28

extraordinary amount of change in the last three years.

30:30

About that time ago, I managed to leave

30:32

a nine-year relationship. That's a happy

30:34

thing. It had gone to crumbs, dust, not even the ghost

30:36

of a friendship left in there. But

30:40

it's hard, isn't it? It's hard to leave a nine-year

30:42

relationship. After nine years, everything's tangled up, isn't it? Finances

30:44

were tangled up with him, I'd had a kid with

30:46

him, living situation was tangled up with him, leaving him

30:48

also involved, leaving my sexuality as I then knew it,

30:50

social life tangled up with him, work stuff tangled up

30:52

with him. Still, I managed to leave that relationship. Why

30:54

can't I leave a WhatsApp group? I

31:00

can't. Eventually,

31:02

it's going to have to get to the

31:04

stage where I'm in them all. Nine

31:09

years is a long time, though, to be out

31:11

of the dating game and, oh, it had changed.

31:14

Crumbs alive, it had changed in nine

31:16

years. I hadn't expected it to go

31:18

100% online. I knew it might

31:20

go like a load more online, because that's obviously

31:22

the way the world is going, but not 100%,

31:24

because young people in here won't know this, but

31:27

in the olden days, if

31:30

you met your partner on the internet, you were a freak.

31:40

And now, it's the law. You've

31:43

got to have a whole CV, haven't you? You've

31:45

got a whole exhibition of photographs of yourself looking

31:47

sexy during hobbies. You're not allowed,

31:50

if you dare. Now,

31:52

if you dare approach the stranger in real

31:54

life, young people, IRL.

31:58

LAUGHTER Say, you

32:00

know, at them something like, please may

32:03

I fancy it? They're

32:07

allowed to ring the police. Online

32:10

dating to minefield as well though, it's so complicated,

32:12

there's so many issues with it. Dick pics for

32:14

a start, everyone's getting pics of dicks they don't

32:16

want. Oh God, as if there could be a

32:18

more glaring example of how feminism's work has yet

32:21

to be finished for crying out loud. Some

32:24

comedian friends of mine are telling me, get upwards of 10

32:26

dicks they didn't last for per

32:28

week. That's so many dicks, that's so many

32:30

pics of dicks. Unbelievable to me that there

32:32

are still men in the universe that think

32:34

she'd probably like a look at, no, what

32:36

is, I can't believe that, but more troubling

32:39

perhaps than all of that. It's

32:41

why have I never got one though? And

32:45

it's not an invitation, it's not an

32:47

invitation, but it does when it's apparently

32:49

so prolific. It

32:51

does make you think, oh, what vibes am

32:53

I giving up? This

32:56

is not like I don't get any contact from strangers, but

32:59

it's sort of like the other week I got an email, I

33:01

mean that says it all doesn't it? Got an email?

33:05

I got an email, I got an email right

33:07

from a man called Tony, and

33:09

it said, it said, dear Jess, dear

33:13

Jess, I really like some of your work. So

33:18

I'm writing a short film and I'd like you to do a

33:20

pass of it to make it funnier. I've

33:22

got a budget of 40 pounds, I need to talk to

33:24

you about this today, or tomorrow, Tony. And

33:29

I found that so insulting, I'll be honest, I'd rather

33:31

see a picture of his horrible little witch. That's

33:34

awful. And I wish I could

33:36

channel the confidence of younger women when it comes

33:38

to online dating. I think I struggle with the

33:41

fact that you're meant to be so sure of

33:43

what you are and one, aren't you? And the

33:45

confidence, I've got, I'm very lucky, I've got two

33:47

Gen Z sisters, I wish I could be, as

33:49

fierce as them. One of my sisters started university

33:51

recently before, before she went, I took her for

33:54

lunch, right? And nothing makes you feel old, like

33:56

when you catch yourself saying to a 19 year

33:58

old, so you stay. anyone?

34:00

It's seeing anyone at the moment.

34:02

And how cool is this? Nineteen

34:04

she went, oh god no. She

34:08

went, I find boys my age pathetic. She

34:12

went, I'm just gonna have like a hot girl summer. What

34:22

is that? I've

34:29

googled it and I'm not sure anyone knows. But

34:34

from what I can see it looks exhausting

34:36

and I'm not sure if it's

34:38

appropriate for me. I think perhaps I'm just gonna

34:40

aim for like a warm woman's spring. But

34:46

with the old dating I decided to try and be honest. I think

34:48

you've got to try and be honest but you know I say that

34:50

I tried to be honest but also I did I

34:53

did also want to get picked. You don't

34:55

get fancy, you don't even get swiped up or whatever it is.

34:57

I wanted to get chosen. I

34:59

did want that but how do you be

35:02

honest about like having a young child and being

35:04

a stand-up comedian whilst also making yourself sound like

35:06

a catch? I'm

35:08

available for sexy dates between 9 a.m. and

35:10

3 p.m. My

35:14

lexicon is so sanitized by parenthood that the other

35:16

night I said goodbye to a taxi driver by

35:18

going, nah, night, sleep well.

35:25

And the biggest slap around the face I got the

35:27

dating was gonna be different this time around nine years

35:29

on with my life where it is now was this

35:31

right? So historically whenever I've been single I've really enjoyed

35:34

putting it about fucking

35:37

loads of people. No

35:40

shame in that. It's 2022. Borderline pride

35:42

arguably I'd say. No one was harmed

35:44

in the making of that fun. Yum,

35:46

yum in my vagina. It's

35:50

meant that once or twice in my life I've had to

35:52

do the awkward but responsible thing of phoning someone up and

35:54

saying well one of us has given everyone some kind of

35:56

STI. It's embarrassing

35:58

isn't it? But it's in here and you grown up

36:00

thinking Well, this time round, I genuinely had to phone

36:02

someone and say, I'm

36:04

so sorry, but I'm

36:07

pretty confident I've given you nits. LAUGHTER

36:15

Yeah. She's

36:19

the one I'm engaged to now, so that's all right. Thanks.

36:24

Amazingly, I am actually going to leave you on that. LAUGHTER

36:27

You've been so lovely, you've got the most

36:29

incredible line-up. Have a lovely evening. Thank you,

36:31

particularly, Alan. Thank you. Thank you. Good night. Jessica

36:37

Fossekou, everybody! CHEERING

36:39

AND APPLAUSE And,

36:44

Stuart, in record time, has taken...

36:46

How did the recording go? It...

36:50

Do you think you've got it? Excellent.

36:52

I feel like you should get a free drink or something, cos

36:54

I just realised we made you work during the show. I

36:57

don't... I mean, I feel like... I don't want you to think you've

37:00

been treated like a human tripod. For the...

37:02

But it is feminism cos Jessica Fossekou is probably going

37:04

to get that job now because of you. She'll

37:06

do some kind of shout-out at that point to you on

37:08

the podcast, and it'll come back to you in some way.

37:11

But would you like a free drink? OK.

37:14

Is there a bar? There

37:17

must be. It's the Barbican. It's fancy, isn't it? Yeah, the

37:19

Barbican's posh, isn't it? No.

37:22

LAUGHTER In London, the

37:24

Barbican's posh. Is it not posh in York? I

37:27

was told it was posh, and that's why I came. I...

37:30

I wouldn't have agreed if I'd known it wasn't posh. Who

37:32

said that? Do you know what I don't like, though? I

37:34

don't like... Is that... I like... Love

37:36

it, here, Barbican. Thank you. You have me back, please. But... And

37:39

you've all been so lovely. But I don't like

37:42

how high raised the stage is, because all the

37:44

people sitting here in the front row, I know

37:46

that what you have is

37:48

the same view I have when I

37:51

accidentally open my camera phone the wrong way and go, Oh,

37:53

my God! Do I really look like... That's how you... And

37:56

I need you to know that I'm about 85% more attractive. Jill,

38:02

I'm more attractive up here, aren't I? Thank

38:04

you. There you go. That's absolutely true. Well

38:06

actually, Jill, how high are you up are

38:08

you? Because the people up there,

38:11

I think, have that lovely selfie angle. Like

38:13

that. When I'm very successful, I'm only going

38:15

to play places with stalls and a dress

38:17

circle. And the stalls will not be available

38:19

for sale. Is there ever another

38:21

dress circle? Is it Amy? Ali.

38:24

Ali. Ali, sorry. I'm quite named dyslexic. It's the

38:27

only thing I have a problem with. I

38:29

get names mixed up, so don't,

38:31

you can't say anything. Ali,

38:36

I got you a drink. It's Prosecco. Do

38:38

you want that? Okay, great.

38:41

Feminism will have to get it to you. The sisterhood

38:43

will have to get it there. Could you please pass

38:45

this back to Ali? Yeah,

38:50

no, listen, I believe in the power of the

38:52

sisterhood. But also, I thought Jill should have won,

38:54

if Ali has won. Because Jill actually, you know,

38:57

was a proper guest. To be honest,

39:00

Jill should probably be paid. But

39:02

I don't have that in my budget. So could,

39:06

where are you Jill? Okay,

39:08

shall I throw it? Do you

39:11

want to come down and get it? Or could someone pass it back? Could you

39:13

take it? Could you get that? Could the sisterhood get that to Jill? Thank you

39:15

so much. Matthew,

39:21

I would have got you one, but you didn't know

39:23

Virginia Woolf. So I didn't. But

39:26

I will get you one, if

39:28

you can name me three Virginia Woolf

39:30

books. The

39:32

stakes have just been raised for

39:35

feminism. Matthew, are you still there?

39:38

Has Matthew left? I don't, okay. That

39:41

would be, I mean, I don't understand if he left at interval,

39:43

and I think he will, but I, I, but

39:48

he's an English teacher. I know, I know that's

39:50

why I'm saying he should know three Virginia Woolf

39:53

books. So Matthew, room for one's own. Well, that's

39:55

a cheater one because that's the one you didn't

39:57

know. I'm going to need three. Go

40:00

on, what are the other two? The

40:03

lighthouse, yes. No

40:07

champagne for you. Okay.

40:11

And you human Google and everything. I

40:13

mean, it's an outrage, Matthew. No, seriously,

40:15

Matthew, we love you and we know that you

40:17

will change. It's

40:34

that time of the year. Your

40:37

vacation is coming up. You

40:39

can already hear the beach waves,

40:41

feel the warm breeze, Lacks.

40:44

Think about work. You really really

40:46

wanted all the work out while

40:48

you're away. monday.com gives you an

40:50

the team that peace of mind

40:52

when all work is on one

40:54

platform and every once. In a think

40:56

things just flow wherever you are. Tapped

40:59

the banner to go to monday.com. Hey,

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in order. Additional terms apply. Hello

42:21

Guilty Feminists, this is Debra just popping in

42:23

with a few quick announcements. We are coming

42:25

to the Edinburgh Fringe. We're doing three shows

42:27

at the Gilded Balloon in the Museum on

42:30

the 12th, the 13th and the 14th

42:32

of August at 7.40pm. And

42:34

we have an incredible line up for you. On

42:36

the 12th of August, Catherine Bohart and I will be

42:39

talking to Helen Bower and there will

42:41

be poetry from Vanessa Kasule, a favourite of

42:43

mine. On the 13th of August, Kate

42:46

Cheka and I will be talking to Emma

42:49

Siddy and there will be music

42:51

from Isabel Rogers. And finally,

42:53

on the 14th, it will be me and Chloe

42:55

Petz talking to Lara Rakote with music from Katie

42:57

Norris. As you can see, every show

43:00

will be different, so why not come to all

43:02

three? You can book now by going to guiltyfeminists.com

43:04

and clicking on Live Shows. And

43:06

speaking of shows, which are different every night, we're

43:09

also producing the amazing storytelling show 16

43:12

Postcodes, which is at the Pleasance Courtyard

43:14

every day at 3.30pm. Jessica

43:17

Regan has lived in 16 different postcodes

43:19

since moving to London from Ireland 20 years

43:21

ago. And every day, audience

43:23

members will help her to choose

43:25

which stories she tells. You'll

43:28

laugh, you'll cry, you'll rent because you

43:30

won't be able to afford to buy.

43:32

If you've lived in any number of

43:34

flats or postcodes or you sometimes feel

43:36

a bit adrift, this show is for

43:38

you. To book tickets, go to edfringe.com

43:40

and search for 16 Postcodes. And

43:42

we'll be back in London on

43:44

the 8th of September at King's Place

43:47

as part of the London Podcast Festival. And

43:49

our old friend Jessica Fosterkew and I will

43:52

be talking to the very wonderful, very glamorous

43:54

Dawn O'Porter about her new novel Honey Bee.

43:57

Once again, for tickets go to guiltyfeminists.com and click on

43:59

Live Shows. click on live shows. If

44:02

you want an ad-free version of this show, you can get

44:04

it by going to patreon.com/guilty feminist and supporting us from

44:06

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44:09

do the same with ACAS plus or Apple podcasts. And

44:11

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44:13

we would love you forever. It helps

44:16

other people find a podcast and that is a good thing.

44:19

And now back to the guilty feminist.

44:22

Hello, York. Are

44:26

you ready for the rest of the guilty feminist?

44:29

Please welcome to the stage Deborah Francis-White. Hello,

44:32

hello, hello.

44:37

Matthew, did you come back? Yes.

44:41

In which case I am going to give

44:43

you this glass, I

44:45

mean glass, this coffee cup

44:47

of Prosecco just

44:50

because if you love a Matthew, let

44:52

him If he comes

44:54

back, he's yours. If he doesn't lock

44:57

the doors. Now, Matthew,

45:00

would you like this? I've realized that I

45:02

poured it quite quickly backstage and it's

45:04

fizzy. I've realized that this is in

45:06

Australia. If someone handed you this in

45:09

Australia, you'd say tides out.

45:14

The tides out on this, I'm afraid it's less

45:16

than half full. But

45:19

Matthew, less than half full

45:21

is a famous quote from which Virginia

45:24

Woolf? Which

45:30

he's been Googling. The

45:33

waves tides out. That is

45:35

correct. Absolutely. Which

45:40

book often goes with? Can

45:43

you hand that to Matthew, please? Thank you. Or just get it

45:45

back to him somehow through the power of feminism by passing it

45:47

back. Thank you. Yes. This

45:50

is actually a good one for human Google. Matthew,

45:52

human Google this. What is

45:54

the first line of Mrs. Dalloway? Human

45:58

Google, just say it with authority. will trust you. Doesn't

46:04

have to be good, Matthew. Just

46:06

has to be. Open

46:11

the door. A

46:13

woman immediately went, no. She just

46:16

went, no, nothing like it. What is it in

46:18

fact? Mrs. Delaway said she'd find the

46:22

flowers herself. That's correct. Mrs. Delaway said she'd find the flowers

46:24

herself. I have recently

46:27

realised that within my audience

46:29

we could name every Virginia Wolf

46:31

book and probably do quite a

46:33

lot of the first lines because

46:35

my audience is so erudite. I've

46:37

realised this recently because a guest

46:39

wasn't able to come on stage

46:41

and so I had to turn

46:43

to the audience in, was it

46:45

Reading? Reading. I had

46:47

to turn to the audience in Reading and say,

46:49

ooh, who's got a feminist job like I was

46:51

doing a bit of crowd work? What they didn't

46:54

know was I was searching for guests. And

46:57

then after they told me they're feminist jobs, I was like,

46:59

ooh, would you like to come on stage? I mean, I

47:01

told them at the beginning just so they had a little

47:03

time to prepare mentally. Just enough time to ruin the full

47:05

show for them. Then

47:08

they came up and we had an

47:10

absolutely incredible time. I want to start

47:12

doing something called Town Halls, Guilty Feminist

47:14

Town Halls, where we just try and

47:16

solve a problem together with the small

47:18

panel and the audience because I think

47:20

you actually know collectively you

47:22

will definitely know more than me and

47:24

any comedians we've got here. I mean,

47:26

not Matthew, but you,

47:30

the rest of you. Would you be up for doing a Town

47:32

Hall? Yeah. Because we're going to

47:34

do one in London, but I'd really like to do

47:36

one up north because I think everything is done, everything's

47:39

done in London all the time. I don't know if you've noticed that. I

47:42

don't know if you've noticed that London

47:44

dominates this country in quite a frightening

47:46

way. I say

47:49

this as someone with London privilege. We'd

47:52

love to bring it to you if you'd like to have it. But

47:56

my question is, how far would you go for a Guilty

47:58

Feminist Town Hall? Would you go to Manchester? Some

48:06

people, some people, some

48:08

people have, when I've said the word Manchester

48:10

has acted is if I've said the seventh

48:12

circle of hell. What

48:16

was the response to Manchester? No. No.

48:22

Okay, it takes four hours to get there from

48:24

here, that's a fair objection. But I

48:26

felt some of those were more emotional, they're

48:28

more emotionally based. Is that because when things happen

48:30

up north they happen in Manchester? What

48:36

was that? Leeds. Wow,

48:41

it's like I've said

48:43

Expelliarmus. Leeds!

48:48

Okay, are we doing Leeds, Stuart? We're

48:52

doing Leeds on this tour? No. Give

48:56

us a cheer if you're from Leeds. And

49:00

you know full well we're not going there because that's why you're here.

49:04

Thank you. Okay, pop down Leeds for the

49:06

next tour, Stuart. Okay,

49:08

are you ready for the second half? We

49:12

have a phenomenal stand-up comedian, you will

49:14

have seen her on all the television

49:17

shows there are. She is one of

49:19

the best stand-up comics in this country,

49:21

nay the world. She

49:24

is genuinely one of the funniest people I've

49:26

met in real life and I always love

49:28

it when she has time to come on

49:30

The Guilty Feminist because she's so busy off

49:32

doing such glamorous things. So could

49:34

you please put your hands together? That

49:37

would be, yeah, like that. And

49:42

make very excited noises. Make

49:46

laws if necessary to welcome

49:49

the incredible Kiri Prichard-McLean. Hey,

49:56

hi! Oh,

50:01

york, thank you so much for having

50:03

me. Absolutely love that Deborah was so

50:05

confident to go on stage and just

50:07

blindly start the War of the Roses

50:09

again. That was a good

50:12

moment for everyone, wasn't it? Manchester,

50:15

I'd rather fucking die. I

50:26

feel in there, I feel quite self-conscious

50:28

tonight. I had a big

50:30

dinner before I go on stage, I never do that, and it is sitting

50:32

on me in an unflattering trouser, so do

50:36

know that I know, okay? I've

50:39

definitely lost, like, the pandemic did for me. I've

50:41

lost my sense of style. I completely lost what

50:43

I was doing myself. Because I mean, I'll be

50:46

like most of you, I basically spent two years,

50:48

I wrote my PJs on my trackies, only really

50:50

washing when I could smell my own fanny. That

50:52

was the situ. The

51:01

rest of the time I was endlessly

51:04

doom-scrolling through Instagram, being

51:07

influence things that I

51:09

end up buying, and I end up buying things

51:11

for personality that I'll never have, convincing

51:14

myself, I will wear more feathers when

51:16

the world starts again. And

51:20

then it means that I just don't have to, I'm trying

51:22

to wear all those clothes and get some use out of

51:24

them now, now the world's open up and again. And it

51:26

basically means the other day I was like leaving my house,

51:28

I said, she leaves my house, there's a full-length mirror, I

51:30

clocked myself in the full-length mirror, I was in a tankini

51:32

in a balaclava, it's too much. It's

51:35

too much for the co-opt, and in. I

51:41

think I've got, I have a sense of style

51:43

that I'm finding back again. I love anything shiny,

51:46

I love a sequin, catches the light very nicely,

51:48

helps your shop lift, I love a sequin, and

51:51

a statement earring. And the statement being, I

51:54

don't fit in anything else in Topshop, that's

51:56

the fucking statement. Classic

51:59

fact. stuff that isn't it we've always got

52:02

banging jewelry, handbags and

52:04

shoes because

52:06

you can't get too fat for those I

52:09

thought genuinely

52:12

managed to chuck my way out of a

52:14

pair of shoes in lockdown that's a dark

52:16

fucking day there are a pair

52:19

of heels a bit like the ones I've got on now where they've

52:21

got like an ankle strap right I know I

52:23

gave you a flash but it was really quick because I was like they probably

52:26

saw my varicose veins then I'm

52:28

such a feminist I'm not paying to sort them

52:30

out so so

52:32

their ankle ones right and I went to

52:34

do the ankle strap on them and there

52:36

was about an inch gap and

52:38

these had previously been my favorite shoes and

52:41

as I was down there I thought

52:43

well they must have shrunk in the wash I

52:47

don't know if you've ever vaseline drum can cool but

52:49

it's not it's

52:52

not ideal self-esteem wise I mean

52:56

I joke about top shot going under I'm glad I

52:58

hope he drowns on his yacht the tax dodging cunt

53:00

I truly do we've

53:04

all got something from there though haven't

53:06

we and I don't know where

53:08

to go now because the top shop used to

53:10

me like it used to be my go-to place right

53:12

and I'm in a difficult sort of situation I'm

53:14

in my mid-30s now so I feel like I'm in

53:16

a weird bit transition with my style also I'm

53:18

plus size I've never been particularly welcome on the high

53:21

street best case scenario they give us one sad corner

53:23

in the shop where they put

53:25

our polyester thrush trousers and a waterfall

53:28

cardigans that's what they put there I

53:32

swear to God it's different music that plays in

53:35

that corner I

53:38

think it's whatever those four lads from the Titanic were playing

53:40

as it went down so

53:46

so when things opened up again I was like

53:49

I'm gonna treat myself can I have a bit

53:51

of retail therapy so I went back and I

53:53

was just I was trying desperately to find somewhere

53:55

that would take my money I was like where

53:57

do I go now where do I shop I'm

53:59

wondering up and down I wanted to Urban Outfitters,

54:01

spoiler alert, it's not fucking there. There

54:07

was a palpable tension in the air when

54:09

I walked into Urban Outfitters, a threesome.

54:13

The atmosphere when I walked into Urban Outfitters was

54:15

like, have you ever been in a Greggs when

54:17

a seagull wanders in? Film it, film

54:19

it. It

54:28

thinks it's like us. Look

54:32

at it with a bag of crisps on its face. Get

54:37

out, it's going to shit everywhere. Oh,

54:42

I felt so uncomfortable, I felt

54:44

so self-conscious. Everything in there

54:47

is for people age and size six. Standing

54:50

there, one of the gorgeous member of staffs waft

54:52

over. I love the stuff they have in Urban

54:55

Outfitters, they've got them in Lush as well. They're

54:57

gorgeous, they're the future, they're Gen Z's and they're

54:59

stunning, they're all sort of quite androgynous looking. I've

55:01

always wanted to flirt with androgyny, I've never been

55:03

able to. But they're all

55:05

stunning, they're like pansexual polyamorous non-binary

55:07

nymphs, they're fucking amazing. And

55:11

that is what I've always wanted to be like, I've always wanted to

55:13

explore that side of myself, but I have to like

55:16

over fend myself because I'm a farmer's door and it

55:18

doesn't matter how many hot showers you have, that shit

55:20

will always stink on you. I

55:23

will always look like I can comfortably carry more than

55:25

I weigh. On

55:29

my wedding day, I've got to know that. This

55:33

member of staffs waft over there, stunning. And

55:36

they had a septum piercing, that piercing there, oh

55:38

my God, it's so cool. I've always wanted one of

55:40

those piercings, but I knew I couldn't get it because

55:42

if I got one of those piercings, everybody would ask

55:45

me how the operation went. That's

55:47

the wrong punchline to that. I just did

55:49

the punchline to the next joke. It's

55:52

because I got really excited about it. I was like, they're going

55:54

to love the operation one. Good

56:02

job I'm filming this for something important. I've

56:06

got ADHD so if you do have a problem without you

56:08

hate neurodiverse people so fuck you. What

56:13

I was going to say is I look like a bull at a county show

56:15

but the moment's gone. Don't

56:19

patronise me. No,

56:22

don't patronise, it's not the pride of Britain Awards, why don't you now

56:24

kid, come on. I

56:28

don't know where I'm going to go now. I don't know where I'm

56:31

going to shop, I was just wandering up and down

56:33

and I could hear beckoning me on the high street,

56:35

come in here like a siren on the rocks, come

56:37

on in here. It's not

56:39

just for aunties, come on in. Have

56:42

you seen our Boxing Day sales? Come on

56:44

in. It was next. You're

56:47

a size 14 in here, come on in. I

56:50

know it's only a maritime before fucking Bon Marche is

56:52

putting the seat beside it. Come

56:55

on in, come in here, get a little cardigan to hide your

56:57

back titch, you've got a wedding coming up, come on. Always

57:05

imagine Bon Marche with a tab on for some reason. Kind

57:09

of bitter as well. There's a few too many of those and

57:11

tells you about hand jobs they gave to sailors when they were

57:13

too young, that kind of thing. I

57:18

love also gigging somewhere and I mean this in the

57:20

best possible way York, shit enough to know what Bon

57:22

Marche is. Yeah,

57:25

because I've been doing a lot of gigs down south.

57:28

They do not know what Bon Marche is. Is

57:32

it a farmer's market? And

57:35

they have to hastily explain it. Oh no,

57:37

it's a shop that does like flammable clothing

57:39

for women who can't use trampolines anymore. You

57:49

know what, I've got extra self-conscious because

57:51

I started going

57:54

on TikTok, right? Now not on

57:56

TikTok because I'm like too old,

57:58

but I am. Fucking

58:00

checking every single day. Just

58:03

watching in the shadows like a devious

58:05

pedophile. Because I

58:07

don't want to get left behind. Too late. It's

58:09

already fucking happened, right? Gen Z

58:11

is their app, isn't it? TikTok is absolutely their

58:13

social media, and it's great. And I

58:16

actually love Gen Z women in particular.

58:18

They feel so much more empowered than

58:20

we were. And they're so funny, and

58:22

they really care about social issues. And

58:24

they're so bright as well. They're so educated. They really

58:26

take in the world. I absolutely love them. And one

58:28

of their favorite things to do as well is rip

58:31

the piss out of millennial women. Which I was really

58:33

enjoying it, because I was like, look at millennial women

58:35

that are all like, I can't adult

58:37

till I've had a pumpkin spice latte. And

58:39

I was like, yeah, dumb bitches. And

58:44

then I watched one the other day, and I was like, oh

58:46

my God, what is he with millennial women? They're all obsessed with

58:48

skinny jeans and side partings. And I was like, no, no. I

58:54

really thought I'd be able to take it on the chin,

58:56

but I'm a fucking sore loser. Just

58:58

staring at my phone, and I went full, oh dear

59:00

Jane, what a sad little life. I

59:06

just threw my phone away. I heard

59:08

myself yelling at my phone on a

59:10

double duvet. Listen, I'm not going

59:12

to take advice from someone who doesn't remember 9-11 and

59:14

Abbie Titman, so why'd you fucking neck in? I'm

59:21

in the wrong jeans. What a thing to find out. I've

59:24

looked at the jeans they're wearing, and they

59:27

wear mom jeans. It's

59:30

fine if you have an ironic, lithe body. Every

59:34

pair of jeans I put on are mom jeans, because I

59:36

have the body of a mother. That's how that works. Or

59:40

they wear high-waisted jeans. I've tried high-waisted jeans. I look

59:42

like an egg with legs. Skinny

59:49

jeans. Give me a cheer if you're a

59:51

skinny-gene wearer. Yeah,

59:53

I hear you. I see you, millennial women. I

59:57

also know we're not letting go with a skinny-gene, right? because

1:00:00

we remember what came before it. It's

1:00:04

the boot cut gene. And

1:00:07

we're not going back. Because

1:00:09

actually we've reclaimed and re-appropriate the bootleg gene,

1:00:11

haven't we? We now use it as a

1:00:14

handy little red flag on menu meat that

1:00:16

wear them. Bad

1:00:19

news if you see a bootleg gene in the wild, isn't

1:00:21

it? Especially if it's paired with a

1:00:23

cowboy boot. That's the mission statement of a rapist. Do know

1:00:25

that. Yep, you

1:00:28

smell juke. Ask for Angela at the bar. You're not fucking safe.

1:00:37

There's men now nervously tucking. Trying

1:00:41

to tuck it into their socks before they go to the bar. Do

1:00:45

you know what? Gene shopping is my worst one. Because there's

1:00:48

a part of my body I always have to negotiate with

1:00:50

when I'm shopping, right? And it's this bit here. There's

1:00:53

this bit here. Look at me turning to the side like

1:00:55

you can't see it from the front. I

1:00:58

call it my Prosecco Paunch and it's like

1:01:00

a bum bag filled with sand that

1:01:03

just hangs there. It's also known as a Gunt. You might

1:01:06

have heard that phrase. Yeah. I love

1:01:08

Gunt because it sounds like a lovely little German village,

1:01:10

doesn't it? I

1:01:13

had two weeks in Gunt. It was delightful. Like

1:01:17

my Prosecco Paunch. Do

1:01:20

you know what? Whenever I talk about Prosecco Paunch, there's always a

1:01:22

certain laugh in the room and it's this. And

1:01:26

I now recognize it's the laugh of a thin yoga woman.

1:01:31

But if you don't have a Prosecco Paunch, you don't have a

1:01:33

Gunt, you don't know that there's some advantages to it. So I'm

1:01:35

going to tell you about a couple very quickly. Number one, I

1:01:37

don't want to be crass, but I can take some hammer. Yeah,

1:01:44

I got a list of names that can vouch for that as well.

1:01:47

Not certain names, but... And

1:01:54

also my Prosecco Paunch gives me the greatest joy. This Gunt,

1:01:57

right, gives me so much joy. It's basically when we get

1:01:59

those two. two days of summer, I'm like, time to do

1:02:01

all my tenon, baby. So I get a chair from the

1:02:03

kitchen, I go and put it in the middle of my

1:02:05

garden. I've not got garden furniture, I'm not fucking Tory. So

1:02:07

I put it. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

1:02:09

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

1:02:11

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

1:02:13

Another joke that doesn't go as well down south. So I

1:02:15

put it in the, put

1:02:18

it in the middle of the garden. And that's when I get, I

1:02:21

get as naked as, and I live in the countryside, right? So I

1:02:23

don't really have neighbors. I've got one guy who can see into the

1:02:25

garden. He's depressed. He's not looking at his window for three weeks. We're

1:02:27

fine, right? So I

1:02:29

sit there, get as naked as I

1:02:31

can, full spaniel's ears out, right? One

1:02:33

continuous line from spaniel ear down onto

1:02:36

gum. That's my look. I

1:02:39

roll my knickers down. I suddenly get very, it's very precious,

1:02:41

right? I roll my knickers down as small as I can,

1:02:43

because I don't want tan lines, actually. Ooh, no, I think

1:02:45

it's really common. I don't want tan lines. I got a

1:02:48

bush like a badger, but I don't want tan lines. It's

1:02:53

got TB as well. That's

1:02:55

sad! That's why I'm not allowed near

1:02:57

cows. So

1:03:02

I lie there, drinking

1:03:04

it in, and

1:03:06

I think to myself, you know what? I am gonna get up, and

1:03:08

I am gonna go to the freezer, and I

1:03:10

am gonna treat myself to a third magnum of the day. Because

1:03:14

I am a special princess and I deserve it. Thank

1:03:17

you so much. Thank you. And then about 40 minutes later,

1:03:20

I'll actually be asked to get up and do it. And

1:03:23

as I get up and do it, this is when

1:03:25

the Prosecco point really steps in, when the gun comes

1:03:27

into play, right? Because as I step up, I will

1:03:29

hear the sound of my own gun peeling off the

1:03:31

top of my own thigh. And

1:03:34

it's this noise. And I've

1:03:36

realized that's my mating call. It

1:03:40

is, I just suddenly see a row of bald heads

1:03:42

along my fence like that. Just

1:03:45

divorced, dads were like, is that low self-esteem I

1:03:47

can hear? Do

1:03:51

you wanna come pizza out and be a mum for two hours? I

1:03:55

wanna say Pizza Express, but you ruined that as well. Genuinely,

1:04:00

I'll tell you this quickly as I wore it. It's the

1:04:02

first time I've shown it in front of an audience. I

1:04:04

think it's so, so funny, this bum bag full of sand,

1:04:07

right? I was like, if I ever had merch, right, I'd

1:04:09

have fucking bum bags done with gun on. Well, it's happened.

1:04:12

I've had, I've had a good time. Yeah,

1:04:17

I'm on tour at the moment, right? Because

1:04:20

so many people, I kept joking about, I want to get, I want

1:04:22

to get merch with gun on it. And so many people kept coming

1:04:24

up afterwards and buying it, right, trying to buy it. I was like,

1:04:26

I fucking should get these made, right? My

1:04:28

fear is everyone always says they want merch and they never actually

1:04:30

buy it. And I've ordered a thousand of these cunts. And

1:04:34

I'm worried I'm going to have to go back to North Wales with

1:04:36

998 of them. Hide

1:04:39

them in my cellar and never look at them again. Where

1:04:42

I live in North Wales, you might know the island

1:04:44

of Anglesey, very beautiful. There's a nuclear power plant there.

1:04:46

My deepest fear is that it blows up,

1:04:48

flattens the island, no one's allowed back there for thousands of

1:04:50

years. And when they finally do, they wonder back and go,

1:04:52

there's an untouched cellar here. They

1:04:56

go down there and they find 998 gun pump bags. And

1:04:59

they stare at them for a while and go, he must have

1:05:01

been their king. guilty

1:05:08

feminist, you've been so, so nice. Thank you very much

1:05:10

for having me. Cheers. Kerry

1:05:16

Bridger McLean, was that you finishing your

1:05:18

set? Were you sure? Oh

1:05:21

yeah, I just didn't know if I was going to go back off on it. No,

1:05:24

you're not meant to go back off, but I had this

1:05:27

horrible panic as I was coming on that I was like,

1:05:29

she's just in the middle of a joke. She's

1:05:31

landed the first laugh and

1:05:33

I'm literally walking. Oh, did it not feel strong enough to close on?

1:05:39

It really did, and that's why I started coming out.

1:05:41

But then with a look on your face, I was

1:05:43

like, this is so professional. Why

1:05:45

don't we keep this in

1:05:47

the podcast? Well,

1:05:49

maybe not very good at stand up. No, you're

1:05:51

amazing at stand up. No, I genuinely was like,

1:05:54

oh my God, I thought by the look on

1:05:56

your face, you were going, don't. Anyway, the audience

1:05:58

don't need to know this. Imagine

1:06:00

if we had an internal monologue. Matthew's

1:06:04

feeling a whole lot better at his job now. We

1:06:06

mocked Matthew for not being a very good

1:06:08

English teacher because he

1:06:10

didn't know Virginia Woolf, but then it turns out, because I

1:06:12

couldn't hear props from the wings, I didn't know when to

1:06:14

come on. Can

1:06:16

I give you this? Absolutely, and

1:06:19

this is a phrase I had to explain to you

1:06:21

backstage, get wide for a clipboard. But

1:06:26

the night first for you, hasn't it? I

1:06:28

mean... Boat or boating? Maybe

1:06:30

if you'd have done the first, you'd know the second. I'm

1:06:36

not saying anything else for the whole month. Got

1:06:40

the wrong clipboard. Oh, really? So...

1:06:50

It's been a while since I've seen you, Kiri. Yeah. Have

1:06:53

you been having a feminist time or a guilty time, or both?

1:06:55

Ooh, interesting. I

1:06:59

think maybe, actually, probably just a feminist time.

1:07:01

I think, you know, because when you're allowed

1:07:03

to be feral in your own home, I

1:07:06

think that's the most feminist you can pay. Yeah,

1:07:10

my partner went invisibly grey, because

1:07:12

I didn't sign up to whatever this is. So,

1:07:17

yeah, I feel like I've been more feminist, and not

1:07:19

just because I've been growing my pubes up. I

1:07:23

know what you mean. I rather wonder

1:07:25

if the next step for feminism is

1:07:28

not where we start to

1:07:30

put people's humanity ahead

1:07:32

of their identity, if you see what

1:07:34

I mean. Like, the whole point of

1:07:36

fighting... The reason we fight for our identities is

1:07:38

because we feel, at times, we're being

1:07:41

treated as less than human or substandard

1:07:43

or... And so, there's a

1:07:45

part of me that thinks, when

1:07:48

women can reveal their

1:07:52

fighting-fucking-hungry, joyous,

1:07:54

terrified selves, we will have won.

1:07:57

Yeah. When we're all pissing standing up is what you

1:07:59

mean. I

1:08:04

felt like, you can't hear very well back

1:08:07

there, but did I miss someone run

1:08:09

a course in it? You

1:08:14

really can't hear backstage, so you are

1:08:16

just fucking guessing. Yes,

1:08:18

you must pee downhill. I

1:08:23

think if you just like really, I've

1:08:25

done it so much. Outside, outdoor, I'll

1:08:27

first go pick a pick. I was

1:08:30

a farmer's daughter, that was all I

1:08:32

did. Well

1:08:34

your whole childhood was peeing, squatting. No

1:08:36

standing up, lots of standing up. Standing up, how

1:08:38

do you pee standing up? That's

1:08:41

what we're talking about right? Well no, the

1:08:43

instructions that Jill was giving us were very

1:08:45

clearly about squatting, but what you do is

1:08:47

you, if I

1:08:50

remember it. Too vulnerable. You

1:08:52

can pee, don't go quiet on me, you can pee standing up,

1:08:54

if you put your mind to it and don't give a shit

1:08:56

about your trainers. Kiri,

1:09:00

what do you do, how do you

1:09:02

pee standing up? You take, if you've,

1:09:04

the clue's in the name. But,

1:09:09

right, you know how men will just go up to,

1:09:11

people with a penis will go up to a fence

1:09:13

or whatever and stand there, just

1:09:15

like relax your hips into it

1:09:18

and it, really?

1:09:21

But men don't kind of, post me on this, there

1:09:23

must be someone who can vouch for me here. Men

1:09:25

and other people who have penises can sort of point

1:09:28

the penis like a fire hose, don't you? Oh

1:09:30

I'm not saying I could knock a can off a fence

1:09:32

with it, like it's not. I

1:09:35

mean, as a farmer's daughter you would know the

1:09:38

fence might be electric, it would be extremely dangerous.

1:09:40

Stay in school kids and don't pee on electric

1:09:42

fences. Someone who, as soon as I mentioned peeing

1:09:44

standing up, has really forced their arm into the

1:09:46

air there. Yes, could we please have? Do you

1:09:49

want to go now? Is that what? This

1:09:52

is like a town, this is like a town hall,

1:09:54

this is exactly what I was talking about. I think

1:09:56

the town hall would try, could you please advise? Yeah.

1:10:02

Okay. Yeah,

1:10:04

it's okay. Can

1:10:06

we get the dog walk? I might

1:10:09

need one. Okay,

1:10:11

this is so Yorkshire I need

1:10:14

you to say it into

1:10:16

the microphone. Do you want

1:10:18

me to translate? Can you come

1:10:20

down? Can you just come down

1:10:22

and I'll give you the mic? Because it needs to start

1:10:24

again. I don't want to be saying

1:10:26

this into the mic with my voice. Go

1:10:28

on, rest in a second. Absolutely not. It

1:10:32

would be verging on cultural appropriation. Yes. What's

1:10:37

your name? Donna.

1:10:40

Donna, just come up. Is

1:10:42

this the same Donna or are you all called Donna? Oh,

1:10:44

there's stairs there. Just stairs

1:10:46

there. Okay, great. Big round of

1:10:48

applause for Donna everybody. Okay,

1:10:50

we'll give Donna one of our

1:10:53

mics and we can share. She

1:10:56

said she wasn't going to come up and say it.

1:10:58

She said she wasn't going to come up and say

1:11:00

it. Your mate's a liar. She's coming up pretty quickly.

1:11:04

Donna everybody. Shoes

1:11:06

off, she's gone full josto. Look at this.

1:11:10

Donna's made herself a hoe. Take

1:11:12

a seat Donna, take a seat. Okay. I'm

1:11:16

pretty good. Yes Donna.

1:11:20

Sir, we're me and meals fine. We

1:11:24

go on a dog walk. It

1:11:26

says, do you need a wave?

1:11:28

So I says no. Before

1:11:30

you leave, right? Well we'll leave. Right. We

1:11:34

get up to a bit where we're going to like dog off

1:11:36

laid. I'm

1:11:40

going to need a piss. So

1:11:43

you piss out? No, no, no. I'm just going

1:11:45

to hang on because he says I'll take you home because it's

1:11:47

not dignified for a later day. But

1:11:50

I ain't no lady. Tell

1:11:59

us more, Donna. Sir, we

1:12:03

have a German Shepherd, so everyone

1:12:05

looks at us. Like we've got

1:12:07

this man-eating beast as it is.

1:12:10

So we're there going,

1:12:12

no, no, no, come back, it's not going

1:12:14

to eat your children, it's fine. Anyway, so,

1:12:16

get back and I got, I need a

1:12:18

piece. This is like

1:12:20

what Parkinson's was like in the 70s, you know?

1:12:25

Let anyone pissed on me, like, yeah, let's have a chat.

1:12:31

So I get to a quiet

1:12:33

area and I says to

1:12:36

my husband, I'm going to have to go, love. And

1:12:38

he says, right, he says, those trees

1:12:40

look good. And

1:12:44

then he's shouting, Donna, Donna, there's people coming.

1:12:47

For fuck's sake. So

1:12:50

you don't know whether to nip it, squeeze

1:12:52

it, you don't know whether to pull your

1:12:54

pants off, you don't know what you're doing.

1:12:58

You don't know, you don't know what you're

1:13:00

doing. So how close are they? I'm

1:13:02

shouting, Ryan, how close are they,

1:13:05

love? And

1:13:08

he's going, well, they're pretty fucking close,

1:13:10

love. You need to get your fucking

1:13:12

knickers up. Hell,

1:13:16

I have a fucking bowel BFC, man.

1:13:24

Do you do stand-up comedy ever, Donna? No.

1:13:29

I feel like you should. I

1:13:32

feel like you've already got a tight five. Yeah.

1:13:35

All puns intended. Or

1:13:38

a baggy three. Well,

1:13:42

we agree now that I off our

1:13:44

girl for a wee-wee before we go.

1:13:49

Standing up, though, Donna, can you be standing up? Because

1:13:52

Kiri Pritchard-McLean maintains that as

1:13:54

a Welsh farmer's daughter, she

1:13:57

can, well, I come from

1:13:59

a family. background. Shocking. Why

1:14:01

no. Game,

1:14:06

recognize game. And

1:14:08

you just know the way to do it.

1:14:10

Yeah. You see people coming in the background

1:14:12

and I'm going Ryan, there's people I can

1:14:14

see him. So what's

1:14:17

the technique? Because Kiri says just relax

1:14:19

your hips. Have you peed, have you

1:14:21

peed standing up Donna? I had doing

1:14:23

it on stage. No. It'll

1:14:29

be very upset. It's against

1:14:31

our marital call vow. It's

1:14:33

Brian here tonight. Ryan. Ryan.

1:14:35

He just picks me up

1:14:38

and drops me off. He

1:14:41

doesn't get involved. If

1:14:44

I'm honest on her, I do understand. All

1:14:48

16 years. 16 years,

1:14:50

yeah. And still going stronger. They've

1:14:53

got a daughter as well. She's

1:14:55

12. Is

1:14:57

she in tonight? No, but she will

1:14:59

be next year. I mean,

1:15:02

I was sort of wishing she were,

1:15:04

just so I could ask her some questions. But

1:15:07

I think you're amazing and I think you should,

1:15:09

she should consider you as a mentor. You're really

1:15:12

funny. Really naturally funny. How far are you from

1:15:14

Leeds? Well, I

1:15:16

only live around Connor. I'm not foul.

1:15:19

Because in Leeds, you could do, I'm sure there's an

1:15:21

open mic night. You could do that. So

1:15:24

tonight's New York. This night, message me on social.

1:15:26

I'll give you a list of gigs. You should

1:15:28

do. Donna,

1:15:31

everybody! Thank

1:15:35

you. More talent. Yeah.

1:15:48

You know, it's fine to say, I think it's the

1:15:50

touching, it's the issue. It's

1:15:53

all right, Donna. Is

1:16:01

she gonna get down those safely? Stuart's with

1:16:03

her. No, Stuart's helping. Okay, great. Stuart knows

1:16:05

what he's doing. Fucking

1:16:08

Donna. Yeah. If

1:16:11

she's not co-hosting by the time we get back

1:16:13

to cheer, I'll be very surprised. We

1:16:18

told you you'd be hearing from local feminists. Probably

1:16:24

ready for our guest. Yeah. That

1:16:26

was our informal guest. We've now got a formal

1:16:28

guest. Our

1:16:39

guest today is a

1:16:41

birth and postnatal specialist who is

1:16:44

passionate about ensuring that every woman

1:16:47

and other birthing person feels empowered in

1:16:49

her birth experience and has continuity of

1:16:51

care in her or their transition to

1:16:54

motherhood or parenthood. Please welcome

1:16:56

Melanie Robinson. I

1:17:00

think you're on

1:17:02

that one,

1:17:08

love. Oh, you got one. Oh,

1:17:11

yeah, Donna's mic, sorry. My

1:17:13

mistake. Yeah. I feel we should have given that to Donna

1:17:16

to take back to a seat because I feel like she'd

1:17:18

have good things to chip in. Now,

1:17:23

Mel, you

1:17:26

are a birth and postnatal specialist

1:17:28

and you are all about the choices

1:17:31

of the birth experience and continuity of

1:17:33

care for transition into parenthood.

1:17:37

What has driven you into this? Because

1:17:39

to be honest, for me, that

1:17:41

sounds like a lot of bodily

1:17:44

fluids. And it also

1:17:46

sounds like a lot of working with a lot

1:17:48

of very stressed, like terrified people as well. Is

1:17:51

that true? I

1:17:53

don't know if they were all stressed and terrified.

1:17:55

Oh, sorry, that would just be me. I just

1:17:58

feel if you're carrying a human inside your body

1:18:00

you know like you know I'm maybe not

1:18:02

stressed and terrified might be too much but

1:18:04

like anxious at

1:18:07

times just curious as

1:18:09

to the future how it might be

1:18:12

desperately downgrading now yeah okay I would

1:18:14

be curious as to how the human

1:18:16

being was going to exit my body

1:18:18

yes that would be something on my

1:18:21

mind so I anchor

1:18:25

when we're trying a backstage I incorrectly called

1:18:27

you midwife what you do is different right

1:18:30

yeah yeah so I'm a birth doula

1:18:32

and postnatal specialist a

1:18:34

midwife provides medical

1:18:37

support or

1:18:39

in maternity services where a

1:18:41

doula provides practical and emotional

1:18:43

support during pregnancy in

1:18:46

labor and birth and then in the postnatal period

1:18:48

as well because another thing we

1:18:50

were talking about which is fascinating because it's like

1:18:53

all my mates are like dropping kids at the

1:18:55

moment that's what's going on in their lives I'm

1:18:57

like go at it and but

1:18:59

I didn't some

1:19:02

of them they're informed to different

1:19:04

amounts and some people I want to be

1:19:06

across everything and some people like no you

1:19:08

know I'm in the hands of professionals but

1:19:10

with a for none of the the reoccurring thing

1:19:13

with all miss it's never been straightforward so

1:19:15

I mean how present are

1:19:17

you there in those different stages for people I

1:19:20

think so for me personally it's

1:19:23

really important to ensure that everybody

1:19:25

is informed and is making really

1:19:28

truly evidence-based information

1:19:32

rich decisions around

1:19:35

what's what's gonna be you know

1:19:37

what they're gonna be involved in and what kind

1:19:39

of care they want for them and what's gonna

1:19:41

be right for them it's care

1:19:44

yeah I was gonna

1:19:46

say navigating the the medical

1:19:50

management of maternity

1:19:52

care is tricky yeah

1:19:56

somebody's got to take their pills or

1:20:00

the bins out. It's bin day. That's

1:20:03

the only alarm I have on my phone. Is

1:20:08

care often imposed upon women and other

1:20:10

people who can give birth? Is it

1:20:12

often just, are they often just

1:20:14

told this is how it's going to be and

1:20:16

you have to be informed to know you could

1:20:18

say, oh no, actually I'd rather have it be like

1:20:20

this or is this an option for me? Is

1:20:23

it often just presented as this is what's

1:20:25

going to happen to you? Yeah,

1:20:28

absolutely. There is a standard

1:20:30

medical model of care that

1:20:32

unless you ask for something

1:20:35

different is

1:20:37

what you can expect to get. And

1:20:39

what's that model? So

1:20:42

it's different appointments

1:20:45

during pregnancy, different

1:20:47

scans and blood

1:20:49

tests and screening tests and that kind

1:20:51

of thing, which you can decline. And

1:20:56

then in the late for labor, there's

1:21:00

routine vaginal examinations, which is a

1:21:02

real hot topic

1:21:06

in the birth working world where

1:21:08

people often will want to decline that,

1:21:10

but find that they

1:21:13

aren't allowed or it's

1:21:15

very difficult for them to kind of move from one

1:21:17

care setting in the hospital

1:21:19

to the labor ward potentially unless they've

1:21:22

had a vaginal examination. So

1:21:24

what's the vaginal examination meant to

1:21:26

be doing? So

1:21:30

it does two things. The one

1:21:32

is it is supposed to determine

1:21:35

cervical dilation. And

1:21:38

basically that's based on a study that

1:21:40

was done in the 1950s,

1:21:42

which standardized

1:21:45

normal childbirth care

1:21:49

by a guy called Dr.

1:21:52

Friedman and it's Friedman's curve. So it's

1:21:54

a graphic representation of what normal labor

1:21:56

should look like. And

1:21:59

so if a... Women or birthing persons,

1:22:01

labor doesn't look like it's being

1:22:03

plotted along that graph. Medical intervention

1:22:06

is then introduced

1:22:09

to speed things up. Oh, I see. So

1:22:11

this is where, like, if you're watching an

1:22:13

episode of Friends, it'll say, you

1:22:15

know, she's three centimeters dilated, she's four fingers

1:22:17

dilated, that kind of thing. I

1:22:20

mean, or you've given birth, one of those. It's

1:22:22

either you've seen it on Friends or you've given

1:22:24

birth. Or

1:22:26

you've been... I'm God for E4, otherwise

1:22:28

I would not. Donna, do

1:22:30

you remember this when you were pregnant with

1:22:32

your daughter? No, she doesn't remember tonight. Donna,

1:22:37

do you remember anyone looking and going, you're

1:22:39

this many centimeters dilated? Well,

1:22:43

they told me... They told me

1:22:45

that I was two centimeters and

1:22:47

to go for a walk. And

1:22:49

then I kicked off and my husband

1:22:51

said she's getting angry, I'm a lot. And

1:22:54

then the game cut the day and I was nine centimeters and

1:22:56

then she shot out. So

1:23:00

if you're listening at home, she was two centimeters, she went

1:23:02

for a walk. And

1:23:04

she kicked off. Oh, she

1:23:06

kicked off. Her husband said she's getting angry. Then

1:23:09

he said there's people coming. They're

1:23:13

pretty fucking close. And then cut

1:23:16

to nine centimeters, she shot out. Is that, I

1:23:18

mean, that story there, because that's the other thing

1:23:21

is, like, there is

1:23:23

no normal, right? And especially like, not

1:23:25

that like in the fifties they were well weird, but like,

1:23:28

that seems like quite an archaic

1:23:30

thing to be basing modern technology

1:23:32

and birthing methods on. So there

1:23:35

we go. Donna said it was hideous. Yeah,

1:23:39

so everybody labors differently. Everybody's

1:23:41

cervix does different things at

1:23:43

different times. It's a snapshot

1:23:46

of that moment if

1:23:48

we're looking at it from a

1:23:50

cervical dilation perspective. But if health

1:23:52

care professionals are wanting to determine

1:23:54

the position of the baby, they

1:23:56

can often feel the soft spots

1:23:58

on the baby's head. And that's really

1:24:01

useful in terms of vaginal examinations,

1:24:03

but the kind of standard plotting

1:24:05

of the cervical dilation isn't

1:24:08

useful. And a lot

1:24:10

of people find that really quite traumatic and invasive,

1:24:12

and there's a whole lot of other stuff to

1:24:14

kind of navigate. Someone's down there with a tape

1:24:17

measure, basically. No, you do it with your fingers.

1:24:19

And we all have different size hands, and it's

1:24:22

a guesstimation, really. Right, so it's just how many fingers

1:24:24

you can get in there, but you might not want

1:24:26

any fingers in there at all if you've got a

1:24:28

baby coming out of there. Yeah.

1:24:32

So one of the things we're chatting about as

1:24:34

well is that you were saying that it feels

1:24:36

like there's a lot of

1:24:38

medical intervention, and maybe from

1:24:41

your perspective, that's unnecessary. Am I putting

1:24:43

words in your mouth about that? I

1:24:46

think at the moment, there's definitely

1:24:49

a spotlight on medical

1:24:51

interventions in

1:24:54

the labor and birthing process. I

1:24:57

think obstetric units for those

1:24:59

people who are poorly and

1:25:02

really need that support are

1:25:04

fantastic. And fortunately, we're in

1:25:06

a model of care where

1:25:08

healthy people are having

1:25:13

to have their care provided to them

1:25:15

with this medical model as well. And

1:25:18

so the fallout from that is the

1:25:21

trauma that a lot of

1:25:23

people are experiencing. And you said that there

1:25:25

was a big issue with mental health. Huge.

1:25:29

Could you tell us more about that? Yeah, so

1:25:32

it's obviously worsened over the last

1:25:34

few years. But in 2019, a

1:25:36

book was published called Why Birth

1:25:38

Trauma Matters by Emma Svensberg.

1:25:41

And she highlighted that

1:25:43

one in three women and

1:25:45

birthing people will experience an aspect

1:25:47

of their labor and birth process

1:25:49

as traumatic. And often, it's about

1:25:51

how they're made to feel. Often,

1:25:53

we hear people saying, oh, I wasn't allowed.

1:25:56

Or they said I had to do X,

1:25:58

Y, and Z. economy

1:26:00

is taken away from them. And

1:26:03

then if we look at things like

1:26:05

the Embrace Report, it

1:26:07

highlights that maternal suicide is

1:26:12

the leading cause of death in the first

1:26:14

year post-Nateley in the UK. My

1:26:17

God. What? So

1:26:19

it's just... Oh my God. That's really shocking. So

1:26:21

then something does need to be done. But

1:26:24

how scary is it that the

1:26:26

most vulnerable people in the

1:26:29

world are so sorry today to

1:26:32

be more vulnerable? I mean, it's

1:26:34

obvious that you give birth

1:26:36

to your vulnerable, you

1:26:40

are pregnant, you're vulnerable, you're

1:26:42

a woman, you're vulnerable, it's

1:26:44

all absolved. And

1:26:47

then suddenly people go, oh, what a surprise

1:26:49

that it's all gone wrong. It's

1:26:53

horrendous. It is, yeah. Do

1:26:55

you think it's been sort of... Yeah, let's give Donna a

1:26:57

clap. I

1:27:00

want to ask if it's the pandemic has

1:27:02

compounded those issues as well. Because so many

1:27:05

aspects of healthcare, I think, the

1:27:07

cracks that were there have been blown wide open after

1:27:09

the past couple of years. Yeah,

1:27:12

they definitely have. And like I say, so that the

1:27:15

one in three study that

1:27:19

was published in 2019, there

1:27:22

are studies coming out now about the

1:27:24

impact that the pandemic has had, but

1:27:26

obviously it's gonna have amplified

1:27:28

10 times. It's

1:27:32

just highlighted the challenges that

1:27:35

maternity services or women and birthing

1:27:37

people were experiencing in maternity services

1:27:40

before. If we could give you

1:27:42

a magic wand, Mel, what would you change? If

1:27:47

I had a magic wand,

1:27:49

funding, funding, funding for... Well,

1:27:52

that won't be a problem with this government. I

1:27:54

love funding stuff. They especially love funding stuff

1:27:57

that doesn't affect them. We

1:28:00

should tell them that one of their mates is all

1:28:02

people giving birth and they'll be fine. But

1:28:04

if all people giving birth was

1:28:06

the brother-in-law of someone in the

1:28:08

cabinet, then it would

1:28:10

be funded. Sadly, I

1:28:13

don't think so. So funding?

1:28:17

Yeah, funding for more midwives, continuity

1:28:20

of carer has been shown

1:28:22

to be best practice. That

1:28:26

midwives are burnt out and leaving in

1:28:28

the droves because they just can't cope

1:28:30

with the system. Funding

1:28:32

for mother and baby units and

1:28:35

funding for more postnatal support. Because

1:28:39

once babies are born, all

1:28:42

the focus and the attention that has

1:28:44

been given to mothers and birthing people

1:28:47

in pregnancy and birth disappears

1:28:49

and the focus is then all on the babies. That's

1:28:52

so interesting. And is there...

1:28:56

Oh, got ADHD and then I went, oh,

1:28:58

there's a fire exit there, quickly, before you

1:29:01

ask the question, count how many there are.

1:29:04

And if you don't do that, you've lost. Wow.

1:29:07

I have ADHD. Welcome. I

1:29:10

have also been diagnosed with ADHD, but I

1:29:12

haven't done that. I've in fact thought, could

1:29:14

I quickly interrupt this? Can

1:29:17

I talk over Kiri now? That's what my brain

1:29:19

has said. Have you got a

1:29:21

question? Yeah. It's

1:29:24

about fire extinguishers though. No, no, no,

1:29:26

no, it wasn't. It was about... If

1:29:29

there's something... What advice would you

1:29:31

give to people who are expecting

1:29:34

or there's a birth in their future? Because I

1:29:37

think sometimes people don't feel, especially in that

1:29:39

situation, it must be quite hard to advocate

1:29:41

yourself when you might be in great amount

1:29:43

of pain or stress or whacked off your

1:29:45

tits on drugs. So what would

1:29:47

you give them as a tool to take into

1:29:49

giving birth? Get

1:29:51

informed. Be as informed

1:29:53

as possible. Rally support. Get

1:29:56

a doula. There's

1:29:58

a doula for everybody. And

1:30:01

yeah, just I think being

1:30:03

informed and supported ensures you're empowered

1:30:05

and that's my tagline, really informed

1:30:07

and supported is empowered. And where

1:30:10

can they get that information? What

1:30:13

information? When you

1:30:15

say be informed. So there

1:30:18

are fantastic social media. So

1:30:23

there's evidence-based birth, which is kind of, that's

1:30:26

an American model, but everybody,

1:30:29

it doesn't matter where you are in

1:30:31

the world, how you

1:30:33

labor in birth is gonna be the same.

1:30:36

Evidence-based birth, follow

1:30:39

them on social media. Is there anywhere

1:30:41

else that we can go for information that's... She's

1:30:43

being shy, because I know she's got training starting in September,

1:30:45

but she doesn't want to say. Ah.

1:30:48

Yeah, yeah. So you

1:30:52

can absolutely find me

1:30:55

at allthingsbirthandbeyond.co.uk. allthingsbirthandbeyond.co.uk.

1:31:00

Yeah. Okay, and we can find

1:31:03

out options, ideas,

1:31:05

what you can and can't say no to, what's

1:31:08

wise, what's just something a man made up in

1:31:10

the 50s and we still do because that's tradition. I

1:31:13

mean, I love tradition when it comes to Christmas, but

1:31:16

not so much when it comes to

1:31:18

vaginal explorations. Then

1:31:21

you're having a shit Christmas, mate. And

1:31:27

on that note, I've

1:31:33

been on this once, maybe twice before, every

1:31:36

time I ruin it. No, not

1:31:38

at all, not at all. Mel, is there anything that I want

1:31:40

to ask, is there anything you wish we'd asked and you're gonna

1:31:42

go, oh, I wish I got to talk about that? Yeah,

1:31:45

so I was gonna say birthriety.org. That's

1:31:48

a fantastic source

1:31:50

of information. AIMS is another,

1:31:53

which stands for, the Association

1:31:55

for the Improvement to Maternity Services. Is it

1:31:57

free of charge? Is it free? Which?

1:32:00

Which one? The all of these. Is

1:32:03

all of this free? So all the

1:32:05

information is free. Information is

1:32:07

always free. And

1:32:10

there are some doulas that provide support

1:32:13

free at the point of delivery. Others

1:32:16

will charge. Some do

1:32:19

bartering systems. Bartering systems?

1:32:21

Yeah. What could I give you

1:32:23

to dole me? You could come and paint my house. I

1:32:25

could come and paint your house and you'll dole me. What

1:32:28

would you give me for a Gunbun bike? LAUGHTER

1:32:37

Please don't say a vaginal next to a leash. I'm

1:32:40

just... It's all I'm asking, Kiri. It's

1:32:43

all I'm asking. Well,

1:32:45

listen, this is great to know that you

1:32:47

can barter with your doula. So if you...

1:32:49

What if you... Knit

1:32:52

jumpers or something like that. You can... If

1:32:54

you're an Etsy-style person, don't pay for a doula.

1:32:57

I've just heard you can barter. But if you

1:32:59

can afford a doula... If you can't afford a

1:33:01

doula, please... Yeah, yeah. Please pay your doula and

1:33:03

tip appropriately. Yeah, because we need to be careful

1:33:06

that it's not like comedians where people go, oh,

1:33:08

do the gig for the exposure. So it's like,

1:33:10

pull a human out of me for the exposure.

1:33:12

LAUGHTER That's actually a really good point.

1:33:15

Feminists pay people. But also, I do like a bartering

1:33:17

system just because I think we should be... Sometimes,

1:33:21

it's something you really want because I think

1:33:23

that sort of gets us

1:33:25

around capitalism. Can

1:33:27

I do the videos? Can you do the

1:33:29

what, sorry? Can I get free things

1:33:31

for videos? Can you get free things for

1:33:33

doing videos? Yeah. Is that Ali? Yeah.

1:33:37

You did. You got Prosecco. LAUGHTER

1:33:39

That was a classic piece of

1:33:42

bartering. LAUGHTER Yeah, if anyone else

1:33:44

wants Prosecco, you know, offer to

1:33:47

rub Kiri's shoulders. LAUGHTER

1:33:51

Listen, don't say

1:33:53

that. Donna's already sexually assaulted

1:33:56

me. LAUGHTER That's another

1:33:58

thing that would cost out of the car. Well

1:34:03

listen, this has been absolutely wonderful

1:34:06

to hear. I'm sure people all around the world

1:34:08

are going to be listening to this and a

1:34:10

lot of our listeners, a certain percentage, are going

1:34:12

to be pregnant. Is anyone pregnant

1:34:14

right now? Just give us a

1:34:17

cheer. Did you learn anything from this? Okay,

1:34:20

what will you be taking from it? Google

1:34:26

a doula. What a catchphrase.

1:34:29

What do you do? You

1:34:33

work at the what? Uni. The

1:34:36

uni? Well, I don't know, can you offer a doula

1:34:38

like free night classes? Get

1:34:40

her one of those like student rail cards, that's

1:34:42

worth a line-up. You

1:34:46

cannot do that. Mel,

1:34:49

you have been an absolutely wonderful guest. Mel

1:34:51

Robinson everybody! Thank

1:34:54

you. You

1:35:29

have been an absolutely wonderful audience. Please

1:35:31

welcome back our final act. It's the

1:35:33

incredible Grace Petrie. York! Have

1:35:43

you had

1:35:46

a wonderful time, York? I've

1:35:49

had a wonderful time as well. I

1:35:53

suspected I was going to have a wonderful

1:35:55

time here tonight. I'm very, very, very fond

1:35:57

of York and I've only become more fond

1:35:59

of York. recently because

1:36:03

I so I am not me

1:36:05

personally I'm not a monarchist right I'm

1:36:08

not a monarchist

1:36:11

surprising news I know that's

1:36:14

uh and it's funny because

1:36:16

when you say to people that you're not a monarchist there are

1:36:18

some people who when you say you're not

1:36:20

a monarchist some people sort of take that to mean that what

1:36:23

you're saying is that you've got like

1:36:25

individual personal problems with the

1:36:27

queen right which which I I I do I

1:36:34

don't I don't she listen she's

1:36:36

she's just an older

1:36:38

lady that I've not met Prince Andrew he

1:36:40

can get to fuck right as

1:36:45

I believe your fine city told him so

1:36:51

it feels like the right night to sing this song I

1:36:53

wrote this song quite a few years ago because I

1:36:55

was thinking about not being a monarchist and I was

1:36:58

thinking about the national anthem that we have in this

1:37:00

country and how I don't feel very represented by it

1:37:02

I know a lot of people that don't feel very

1:37:04

represented by it so I had to go at writing

1:37:06

a new national anthem for Britain and

1:37:08

and I've said it to Downing Street and I

1:37:10

think we are days away from being

1:37:14

officially adopted this

1:37:17

is a this is you give it give

1:37:20

it a go this one and you

1:37:22

tell me if you think this would be better before the

1:37:24

football matches I personally think it would it's called God Save

1:37:26

the Hungry and it goes am

1:37:36

I an agitator not

1:37:40

thinking it's cool it's

1:37:42

some were born to suffer while some

1:37:44

were born to rule does that make

1:37:46

me a traitor before

1:37:49

you toss that word around please

1:37:51

understand that I love this land

1:37:54

mine yeah

1:37:57

it's true God ain't my thing If

1:38:00

he was, I'd rather sing all

1:38:03

of the refugees Perishing in

1:38:05

foreign seas Those bodies washed

1:38:07

up on the shores We're

1:38:09

fleeing our state-sponsored wars And

1:38:11

our leader sees nothing wrong

1:38:13

So I wrote him a

1:38:15

brand new song that goes

1:38:17

God save the hungry, God

1:38:20

save the poor And

1:38:23

God save those desperate souls whose

1:38:25

lives were torn apart by war

1:38:27

God save the homeless and those

1:38:29

with disabilities And

1:38:33

all the other targets of

1:38:35

this heartless ideology And

1:38:37

there's a long and shameful list of

1:38:40

folks we need God to assist And

1:38:42

those who sleep in palaces at

1:38:45

night Think

1:38:47

they're doing alright And

1:38:54

Britain could be

1:38:56

greater if

1:38:59

it had fairness at its heart Yeah

1:39:02

this nation altogether is more than the

1:39:04

sum of its parts But they'll call

1:39:06

you a traitor for

1:39:09

even daring to believe A sleight

1:39:11

of hand from those who bleed

1:39:13

this land's a right Yeah

1:39:17

it's true God ate my thing But

1:39:19

if he was, I'd rather

1:39:21

sing all of the refugees

1:39:25

Perishing in foreign seas Those

1:39:27

bodies washed up on the

1:39:29

shores We're fleeing our state-sponsored

1:39:31

wars And our leader sees

1:39:33

nothing wrong So I wrote

1:39:36

him a brand new song that goes

1:39:38

God save the hungry, God

1:39:41

save the poor And

1:39:43

God save those desperate souls whose

1:39:45

lives were torn apart by war

1:39:47

God save the homeless and those

1:39:50

with disabilities And

1:39:53

all the other targets of

1:39:55

this heartless ideology And there's

1:39:58

a long and shameful list of folks we need God to assist Folks

1:40:00

we need God to assist But

1:40:02

those who sleep in palaces

1:40:04

at night I

1:40:07

think they're doing alright I

1:40:12

think they're doing alright So

1:40:17

give me a song A

1:40:19

little one, stick in my throat

1:40:21

If you agree the only power

1:40:23

we should respect Is

1:40:25

that come from a vote, yeah Give

1:40:28

me a song, a little one,

1:40:30

stick in my throat To see

1:40:33

our millionaire politicians say

1:40:36

We're all in the same boat Yeah,

1:40:43

it's true God ain't

1:40:45

my thing But if he

1:40:48

was, I'd rather sing For

1:40:51

all of the refugees Perishing

1:40:54

in foreign seas Those bodies

1:40:57

washed up on the shores

1:40:59

Were fleeing our state-sponsored wars

1:41:02

And our leader sees nothing wrong So

1:41:04

raise your voice and sing along, yeah

1:41:07

God save the hungry, God

1:41:10

save the poor God

1:41:13

save those desperate souls whose lives

1:41:15

Were torn apart by war God

1:41:18

save the homeless and those

1:41:20

with disability And

1:41:22

all the other targets of

1:41:24

this heartless ideology And

1:41:27

my gratitude to all the brave Soldiers

1:41:30

spinning in their grave To see

1:41:32

the eaten mess that they've made

1:41:34

up The sacrifice they gave to

1:41:37

tear apart the welfare state And

1:41:40

all that ever made bring

1:41:42

great While those who sleep

1:41:44

in palaces tonight They're

1:41:46

still doing alright They're

1:41:51

still doing alright Thank

1:42:02

you very much! You

1:42:06

have been listening to the Guilty Feminist with

1:42:08

me, Deborah Francis-Might and my very special guests,

1:42:10

Curie Pritchard- Plain, Jessica Foster-Q and

1:42:12

Melody Robinson, with music from Grace Petrie. The Guilty

1:42:14

Feminist theme tune was composed by Mark Hodgson produced

1:42:16

by Nick Sheldon. The recording engineer was Chris Sharp.

1:42:19

The producer for the spontaneity shot was Thomas Linsky,

1:42:21

thanks to Rachel Kraft, Magina D.C.O. Stuart

1:42:23

Arnold and everyone at the York Barbican, as

1:42:26

well as all of you for listening. For

1:42:28

more information about this and other episodes, visit

1:42:30

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everybody. Just a very

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the parent company, is

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reducing the number of political posts

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open the settings tab. Scroll

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on content preferences, open

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turn on don't limit political

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Please do that now or you won't even see

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