0:02

I feel the space, the light, the color, the form, and the scene simultaneously.

0:07

I'm not thinking. I'm sensing the street.

0:11

Read the street in front of you, and the picture will present itself.

0:15

Music.

0:30

Hey, welcome to the Street Shots Photography Podcast.

0:35

This is Antonio. And this is Ward. And this is episode, what are we at? 211. 211, yeah.

0:44

211. That sounds like a police code.

0:48

We got a 211 in progress. It is, isn't it? It is a 211, isn't that?

0:52

That's a burglary in progress for LAPD, isn't it? I don't know.

0:57

211 in progress. I Google it now, but I don't want to just, yeah, well, episode two 11.

1:02

I know this sounds so familiar. Now I'm saying we have a two 11 in progress. Yes.

1:05

This is episode two 11 in progress for the middle of July, 2024.

1:12

We got old TV on the brain, my friend. We got old TV. It's been watching too

1:16

much Adam 12. That's right. What was it? Was it called Adam 12? Yeah. One Adam 12. See the man. Yeah.

1:23

Now I need to look up what, what, uh, police.

1:27

Okay. Now I got to look at a police 11. Sorry. Yeah.

1:31

And we got into this, uh, two 11 is a police dispatch code that indicates a

1:35

potential robbery in progress. Very good. Dispatchers use this code to inform

1:38

patrol units that a robbery has been reported in a specific location.

1:42

So yes, don't anybody turn your volume up too high. This is not a robbery in progress.

1:47

The only thing we're going to be robbing is your time, right?

1:51

I guess for the next hour, which you'll be giving willingly. We hope.

1:55

Yes. Willingly. And this is again, not scripted. This is happening live.

2:00

That is terrifying yeah yeah and

2:03

we might sound a little different because we're earlier in the day today that

2:06

we're recording i actually i don't know if we can tell the difference maybe in

2:10

just our demeanor in terms of like we're not exhausted and or not exhausted

2:16

yet yeah yeah not exhausted yet how you doing over there i'm doing really well

2:21

yeah i've been busy working and busy working at the calgary stampede which i

2:27

was telling you about so So yeah, we'll talk about, we'll talk about that. Yeah. How about you,

2:31

my friend? What's up with you? Uh, not much. It's been kind of slow. I do have a class tomorrow,

2:37

which is tomorrow will be Friday.

2:41

We're recording this Thursday. Tomorrow's Friday. I got a class at the library.

2:44

It's actually the first time I'm teaching this class. It's funny.

2:48

It's in, I need to change the names. Intro to digital photography.

2:51

And the only reason I haven't changed the name yet, because it's,

2:53

it's kind of the sort of the running name that I've got for all my classes.

2:57

And I didn't name the class initially that way, but it's the first time I'm

3:02

teaching this specific class at the library through the library,

3:06

not through brick or anything like that. You know, I was thinking about that. Like someone was saying,

3:10

isn't, you know, digital photography redundant. And I was like,

3:12

you know, I actually joke about that during my presentation.

3:16

And I thought if it was just saying introduction to photography,

3:21

I was, I was wondering if like people who are just beginning might.

3:25

Right. Think that it was like, well, I don't have a, you know,

3:29

like maybe they think it's a film photography class or something like that.

3:32

And like adding the digital photography makes it, you know, it's a,

3:36

it's a class for beginners. And so it makes it more inviting or something. I don't know.

3:38

What do you think? Well, it's not a history lesson starting in 1834 in France,

3:42

you know, like, oh no, what have I walked myself into?

3:47

No, no, I think digital photography is fine.

3:50

Cause then you can match yourself with a phone or your new Sony or whatever.

3:54

Whatever yeah although i i do oh you

3:58

know what i i didn't put this in the description i did put in

4:01

the description that it's not for it's not

4:03

for smartphone photographers though oh okay all

4:06

right yeah just because because half the

4:09

class i spend or a big chunk of the class i talk about the relationship with

4:13

shutter and aperture and right and i think that's in the description of the

4:16

class because you know that to me is important and like you know once i start

4:22

giving that that information out about like those relationships between the

4:27

light and the creativity, like, you know,

4:29

shutters being aperture deal with light, but they also deal with your creative process.

4:34

And, but I don't, you know, if someone doesn't have a camera,

4:37

I was like, get out. Yeah. I was like, you know, when, if you, you know, if you're, when you're ready to

4:42

get a camera, that's not a smartphone camera, this stuff will help you. So, yeah.

4:48

So I got that, I got that tomorrow. And, uh, I had to, I was retooling my slideshow a little bit for this because this is not a workshop.

4:57

It's a, I'm teaching you photography and, and, and so there's a lot of slides

5:03

and, and a lot of photographs like, you know, and, and, and explanations.

5:08

So that's, and I can get a little dull, but I try to put a break in the middle there.

5:12

So they're not, uh, falling asleep too much. And, uh, I don't know.

5:17

I'm looking forward to it. although the library that i'm working in i know the

5:20

room that i'm in they've got one of those giant projectors on the ceiling yeah

5:23

it's like the size of a like an ottoman stuck up

5:26

there and i don't mean

5:29

from you know the turkish implant no they're

5:32

from i think you put your feet on when you're sitting on the feet i'm not like

5:35

some guy in a you know old time outfit hanging out and showing slides yeah that

5:41

would be actually kind of a funny day anyway it doesn't it matter i don't know

5:46

that's my train of thought oh yeah but it's it the library is not that room,

5:51

even though it's got tall ceilings it's not air conditioned very well

5:54

so i'm like gonna do a you know a dance tonight to hope that the gods of humidity

6:03

don't appear tomorrow because that room gets really hot with that projector

6:07

right and then everybody gets kind of sleepy and stuff like that So anyway,

6:12

I'm looking forward to it. It's an, it's the digital photography class and I've thrown in some history.

6:16

I do throw in a little bit of history because it's one of the things I tell

6:19

them is that, you know, if you want to, one of the best ways to improve your

6:23

own photography is to look at other photographers.

6:25

You know, so I just a little bit of that because you know, get into a whole

6:29

class on that, but I had to throw that in. But today I was retooling the slideshow to talk about sensor sizes and that

6:36

can get a little, a little geeky. but I did record a, an advertisement from

6:41

BNH while I was on YouTube and it popped up. I don't know.

6:45

I saw it like a couple of weeks ago and I was like, Oh, that would be such a

6:47

great, you know, like four minute video. To play for the thing you know and i was like well how am i going to record

6:53

it i couldn't and then finally it popped up on when i was on my computer it

6:56

popped up on my youtube on oh cool, it's a discussion of sensor sizes is it yeah yeah

7:01

it's just like the guy's talking about the four sensor sizes the medium

7:04

format you know medium format full frame and like what and i

7:07

thought it's a nice concise little thing

7:10

about sensor sizes so i thought oh that might you know throw in

7:12

a video for four minutes and it's an ad for bnh so you know i don't think they'll

7:17

care too much bnh logo at the bottom of it anyway so that's a sort of long-winded

7:24

way of saying that's what i was doing i have not been i've not been shooting

7:27

that much lately strangely enough,

7:31

i've been shooting a lot like really a lot well let's then since i'm not shooting and you are,

7:38

let's let's go into that a little bit i mean just to go

7:41

for a side like not that i'm in any kind of mood or something

7:43

like that i've been actually spending more time writing and writing

7:47

it is a creative act you know i'm not

7:49

like thinking something's wrong with photography i mean i

7:52

got my camera sort of lying around and every now and then i pick one up and

7:55

you know take a couple shots of something but i'm not going out and actively

7:58

shooting it you know it's just that doesn't sound right actively shooting yeah

8:03

i know it's you gotta yeah if we can't watch out for those terms.

8:09

I don't really like them anymore. Whoa. What's up? Oh, we got a, we got somebody here who wants to say hi on, on camera.

8:17

There we go. He's going to talk. Well, actually if he's up here,

8:20

he's not going to talk. This is OP by the way. You might've heard him in the background, but he's going to hang out with me

8:24

because we're very low key here. Anyway, So yeah, no, I haven't, I haven't really taken my camera out for a walk or something like that.

8:32

So let's hear about your experiences with walking. I mean, we talking about,

8:36

we were talking about that last, last time, right? Yeah.

8:40

You were, had already gone or you were about to go? I think, well, the.

8:46

It was two weeks ago. It was two weeks ago. So before we had talked about the

8:51

Handhills Lake Stampede, which is that rural stampede that I had.

8:54

You were about to go, right? With your new cameras, right? No.

8:56

No, we came back. We were talking about my experiences, you know,

9:00

coming, coming back, whatever. And that was all two episodes ago.

9:05

And so this week is our, well, they call it the Mardi Gras for Cowboys,

9:10

the Calgary Stampede, which is 10 days of, it's like a big state fair and rodeo.

9:15

And there's a big midway fun fair, like the part, it's basically the parking

9:21

lot for the, the, the rink for the NHL team here. So it's this huge area.

9:27

Are you going there tonight? Yes. Yeah. I've been every night since, uh, every night except this past Saturday

9:35

when we went over to our neighbors for, for to visit because they're going to

9:40

whatever they're going on a family trip later on this summer.

9:43

Thought it'd be our last time to visit with them before they left.

9:46

Anyway. So this was, sorry, I gotta finish my sentences. I was waiting for you

9:51

to even describe what you guys were eating and what you did.

9:54

I was like, Oh, let's go on that path for a little while. No, no, no. We'll cut that out, dear listener.

9:59

No, they have to, they get to, they get to hear everything we say.

10:06

So anyway, go ahead. So I work, I work during the day.

10:10

I get, thankfully I get to finish work at three in the afternoon and so I can

10:14

come home, maybe have a shower, take the dog for a walk.

10:17

And then by about dinnertime, five or 6 PM, I'm back down on the Midway and,

10:23

Now on my chest, I have my X-E3, which is my street workhorse,

10:27

which you saw me work with in New York.

10:30

And then the other was the new X-S20.

10:33

And I put the 23mm on the X-E3 and the 50mm on the X-S20.

10:40

I ran into some acquaintances every now and then, and you always do when you're

10:44

down there so often and you've got friends in the photography community.

10:48

I use the 23 millimeter for trolling and I use the 50 millimeter for big game

10:55

hunting. So there's two different modes. So if I wanted something really composed of a person that's a little bit further

11:03

away, kind of more portrait-y, then I'd use the 50.

11:06

And if I just wanted to get the group, you know, groups of people as they're

11:10

walking toward me and in large groups, and I just wanted to get interesting

11:15

fleeting gestures and arrangements Then I'd use the 23.

11:21

Yeah. So that was, that's what I've been doing every night. And no,

11:26

it's a lot of, a lot of fun. So you're, you're now, I mean, you were doing street photography.

11:34

The last time we talked about this, you said you had a Canon camera and you

11:38

did street photography with it.

11:41

No i had done no the very first street photography i was doing was with my iphone 4.

11:48

And canon it was a canon s100 it

11:52

was like one of those little tiny portable elf

11:55

whatever you want to call them yeah and then you and then you

11:58

went you had the the fuji eventually you had a fuji x x20

12:02

yeah which i think i got in 2015 2014 so

12:06

what what's it like doing i mean

12:08

you're using the 50 millimeter on this on this this new

12:12

uh success 20 yeah yeah and

12:17

that's a different process yeah it's

12:21

much more considered i stand still lining up i see an interesting group of people

12:26

that in a certain way and they're reacting and i know that they won't notice

12:31

me standing there pointing the camera at them where with the 23 if i kind of

12:37

stopped where i was you know with a wider group i would definitely more or less be noticed here i'm standing

12:45

a little bit further away you know while the people are playing whack-a-mole

12:49

i can be at the end at one end and shooting across down at them while they're

12:54

playing their game and i wouldn't be noticed,

12:57

he's not using a little flip out screen on that not at all no no how come well

13:02

i i'm using the viewfinder for those i'm looking through the camera for those

13:06

so those are not right from the the hip no i'm fine with lining it well yeah

13:11

yeah all right it's fine i mean you know.

13:14

It's all right. It works. Well, no, I was thinking like that,

13:18

you know, the, the advantage of that kind of, you know, system with a flip out

13:22

screen is that you can be a little more discreet about taking pictures.

13:27

You're not looking through, but then it's at your, then it's at your waist. Yeah.

13:32

And then if I'm that, then I'm, or I'm already sort of doing that,

13:35

but I'm just not looking at the viewfinder when I'm shooting from the hip on the 23.

13:39

Three i'd never really it hadn't really occurred to me you

13:43

know to use the camera like a twin lens and with

13:46

the success 20 if i

13:50

get it's pretty cool it flips it flips out and i've

13:52

got the camera strap coming down and so it's not

13:56

like the tip out like you know on an

13:58

x pro 3 or whatever where it can you can

14:01

kind of tip it out and point it straight up here it's

14:04

off to the side of the camera and that way the

14:07

camera is more for video right for that sort of thing yeah

14:10

yeah i mean i i you know when when you were

14:13

in town we were walking down the streets i used that camera or

14:16

my the x h 2 s or whatever which is the same body yeah but i use that flip out

14:24

screen but it is kind of awkward in a fast moving situation like street photography

14:28

i also feel like it's going to break off you know yeah because it's it kind

14:32

of feels flimsy and stuff like that so yeah for video it's It's good for,

14:35

or like, you know, doing low angle shots or high angle shots.

14:38

Anyway, so. But I have the screen flipped in, like I'm, I'm not,

14:42

I don't even have the system. Right, so you don't look at the back of it. So I don't. Oh, so you don't see

14:44

it at all. I don't see it and I, I adjust the menus and everything looking through the viewfinder. So.

14:49

Yeah. I treat it like. You're using it like a real camera.

14:52

I'm using it like a real camera and it's still a great novelty.

14:56

Yeah. So. So what's the, what's the experience you want to share about that?

15:00

Well, there are a few things. we're using the new gear getting

15:03

into it finding a new headspace

15:06

like i've been doing shooting down at the

15:09

stampede probably now for 10 years you know working at least five or six days

15:15

of the 10 there and i'm there for four or five hours at a time usually in the

15:21

evening like after work and through the dinner hour either tomorrow or saturday

15:25

i'll work late and then i'll do or maybe both nights I'll work late so that I can do some street at night.

15:31

I'm looking forward to using the XS20 for that.

15:34

Sorry, you do this during school days too? I mean, like, I guess tonight is a school night.

15:39

Yeah. Well, I work, like I say, I work until three and then I can come home,

15:44

clean up, whatever, and then get on the train and go down there.

15:48

Yeah, I go to work tomorrow, yeah. But tomorrow's Friday. I sleep in Saturday. It's fine. It's all good. Okay. All right.

15:55

So, I mean, the continuation of this work, it seems like kind of like a life's

16:01

whatever, a thing I have to do.

16:05

So, I'll do with a little bit less sleep and I show some of my co-workers the

16:11

work that I'm doing and they like what I'm doing.

16:13

So, they'll forgive me if I'm a little groggy at the morning meeting.

16:17

So, you know, I'm going to try to work all the angles here. yeah

16:21

so i put a lot of put a lot of miles on the shoes and and do a lot of shooting

16:26

it's a primarily you know it's it's people there isn't too much architecture

16:31

although we have a new convention center on the grounds there which is quite

16:34

nice but it's just walking up and down that,

16:39

whatever that three quarters of a mile from one end of the grounds to the other and,

16:44

up up one pathway through where all the carnies are and everything and back

16:48

down through where the rides are and watching for the light and looking for

16:52

interesting people and trying not to get into any ruts of,

16:57

you know, I'm just going to take pictures of tall people or I'm just going to

17:01

take pictures of tourists or whatever.

17:04

Do you do that? Do you, you know, well, sometimes, well, I, I'm like,

17:10

Oh, take a picture of, well, no, I'm not, no, really.

17:13

I'm trying to get myself out of that. I'm trying to be as democratic as I can

17:17

try and shoot everybody. And every now and then there are moments where there's, you know,

17:23

the last couple of years there are these really earnest young couples who are

17:26

in love or in crisis or something. It's very dramatic.

17:30

And so I try and capture that. And yesterday I got a, was it yesterday or the day before, I got a picture of

17:37

a child with his presumably grandmother consoling her.

17:43

It's quite a, quite a heartfelt kind of. The kid was consoling the grandmother?

17:47

Yeah, had his arm around his grandmother.

17:50

His grandmother's head was, you know, face was in his chest.

17:54

So I don't know about what went on there, but it was just, and there are millions

17:59

and millions of moments like that in an event like that.

18:02

And they set a record, actually, on Sunday, I think, that 201,000 people went in through there.

18:10

So it was the busiest, although I didn't really feel that it was the busiest

18:14

day that I can remember there.

18:17

But it was quite a crush of people.

18:20

And it's interesting for me, so many people go there and they kind of dread

18:26

it because it's going to be hot. We had some really hot weather here yesterday.

18:29

It was 100 degrees Fahrenheit down there.

18:33

But, you know, 15% humidity, so, you know. It's hot, but it's a dry heat. You know what they say.

18:39

So there are people that go down there kind of in some families

18:42

you can tell dad is just dreading now we have to get in line for this we

18:45

have to get in line for that and there's the all these kind of

18:48

emotions and the little ones are hot and they're tired and they're

18:51

crying and there's all of this kind of human

18:53

drama going on of these people like when do

18:56

we get when do we when can we get out of here okay we

18:59

got to do all these things check off all these boxes and whatever

19:02

and my and you

19:05

know the crush of people and for me it's i'm i

19:08

want to be there i'm there to capture all this and i am relaxed and i am wide-eyed

19:16

and watching all the stuff that's going on and just to see how we're all there

19:21

for different reasons and how for me it feels like i should be.

19:26

There like i'm documenting something i don't

19:29

know and then being encouraged by the

19:32

results and so on kind of feeds on itself and i

19:35

like the whole process right you're you're i'm sorry.

19:39

To interrupt no that's fine when you're

19:42

saying that it reminds me of like you know going to time square in

19:45

the city i mean time square is an easy target for making fun

19:49

of and and it being overcrowded and the

19:52

sort of the same kind of discussion you're having is too many people and

19:55

all sort of wandering around yeah they're the

19:58

the impatient parents who want to get

20:01

away from the people who are dressed up like you know batman and

20:05

and you know like a muppet or

20:08

something like that yeah and then you know going there as

20:12

like if i'm going to do photography which i

20:14

haven't done that much but i i have gone to times square

20:18

occasionally walk through with my camera knowing like

20:21

okay i'm gonna be here and i'm gonna photograph it it is a

20:24

completely different experience and i can

20:27

deal with it like i can deal with the crowds and the smell and

20:30

the nonsense because you know basically

20:33

you don't have to be there you want to be

20:36

there right well yeah and i

20:39

mean i'm assuming that the people who are there want to

20:42

be there too they just don't like it yeah you don't

20:45

go you don't wander into times square because you're you know

20:48

you're trying to get someplace you know it's not a it's like

20:51

a place it's a destination yeah so i do

20:54

think people go there because they want to they just when they you know i'm

20:57

speaking i can't speak so generalized i'm sure people

21:00

like it there because it's so light you know it's so uh crazy there.

21:03

But that idea of being someplace and putting

21:06

yourself in that situation really just does change your mindset and

21:10

and and you like you're saying you put

21:12

miles on your shoes you know you can do that very easily or spend hours in some

21:16

place and like oh what did i just do i spent hours in times square you know

21:21

someone says i can't stand times where it's like well i can when i've got my

21:25

camera you know it's just it's it's it's interesting because you're looking

21:29

you're in the same place the same you.

21:32

Maybe a different mindsets you know you were saying you said something about

21:36

headspace before when you said that i thought that's uh,

21:39

an interesting way to those in reference to the new camera

21:42

right that i've got another opportunity so you're

21:45

doing this doing this thing year after year it's you

21:49

know you could say you could struggle to keep it fresh i'm i

21:52

suppose that's true if you get in a rut when you're shooting and

21:55

you're just shooting a certain way all the

21:58

time you got to make yourself aware uh

22:01

that you're you should maybe look for

22:04

something else and those moments where

22:07

i kind of fatigued were from looking and looking and looking

22:10

then i'll go you know get a snack or a you know beverage or something and just

22:16

sit for a few minutes and then pick up and go again are you saying that like

22:21

if you get in that kind of rut you can challenge yourself by in in in this sense

22:26

maybe having a different type of. Piece of gear that you're never that you're not used to well

22:31

it was the opportunity was there to go okay so if

22:34

i'm in a rut let's use a 50 a little more and

22:37

with a new camera right and start pointing it

22:40

that's a challenge though yeah yeah i mean well not for

22:43

you you've done this before right yeah but i mean i still have

22:45

to get spun up right i still have to like oh yeah yeah think

22:48

of okay now i'm not just walking through the

22:51

crowds with grab shots and looking for those young

22:55

couples that are in in trouble or whatever yeah i'm like

22:58

now i gotta look for i gotta look for compositions

23:01

that are already there and i've gotta be

23:05

in the right place and look more critically at the light and it's a more a more

23:11

considered way to shoot yeah as you're saying this remembering like on purpose

23:17

going out with i can't remember what camera i have but i put a 75 millimeter lens on,

23:23

So on our Fuji, that's what, 110 millimeter?

23:26

Yeah, it's getting long. So it's like a 105. And 105, your street photography

23:29

is thinking in terms of like a saw lighter or any of those,

23:34

photographers who go out and do street photography with a slightly telephoto

23:39

lens, which is a bit of a challenge. Absolutely.

23:42

And the frustration I have with the first time I did that.

23:46

I mean, I was kind of happy with the shots that I got, but there was a definite...

23:52

Frustration and then even like i'm not doing this today you

23:55

know i put the camera away or something like that and it reminds

23:58

me of and you know then going back maybe to my 23 millimeter

24:01

right because i'm so used to and there was

24:04

a is that a meme or a cartoon i

24:07

can't remember and it's like there's a guy standing in front

24:10

of three doors right and the first door says movies movies i

24:14

haven't seen the second door was movies my friends

24:16

have recommended the third says movies i've seen

24:19

you know over 30 times and the next panel is

24:22

him kicking the third door open right yeah you know and i'm thinking like got

24:27

a new piece of gear and it's really frustrating you know what i'm just gonna

24:30

i'm gonna go back home to my regular piece of gear and and and do what i know

24:36

but there is this big there's this idea of challenging and and sticking with it and And,

24:42

and, and often you can get, you can get really cool results.

24:46

Hold on. Opie, you cannot. Sorry. My cat is walking on my papers here and, and he's being a pain.

24:52

I've invited him in so that he doesn't scream. Yeah. Well, I would say to what

24:56

you had just said, I'm thankful, lucky that I have time.

25:00

I have 10 days. So there's some things that I haven't done.

25:04

So, I mean, what was this day six or day seven day, whatever.

25:08

And it's, it's 10 days. So.

25:11

So I will do the stuff that's easiest to do early on in the week to get my kind

25:17

of vision up and my abilities kind of up.

25:20

And then I'll do the harder stuff later on in the week.

25:22

So I won't feel bad about or have any misgivings about leaving behind what I've

25:29

been doing during the week that I've had some success at.

25:31

So the two things I'm going to be doing shooting at night, which will be probably

25:34

tomorrow night and or Saturday night. and then shooting with a 16,

25:38

which is on third body because I have three bodies with me.

25:41

And so the night and the 16 go well together.

25:49

That's a, we're working at what, a 24? 24, yeah.

25:53

That's really, that's honestly a challenge. You generally shoot with that?

25:58

No, not generally. Just I wait. It's the hardest to do.

26:01

So I wait till later in the week. So I did have some success with it,

26:06

shooting the facades on the carnival, on the rides and on the vendors,

26:13

like the food vendors and so on, the way their signs are lit up.

26:18

It's just very basic static subjects.

26:20

So I was happy with that last year, and I didn't really pursue it much further.

26:26

This year, it's sort of I'm going to try and make it a little bit more interesting

26:30

and include more people and do something a little more dynamic.

26:34

What exactly it's going to look like, we'll have to discover.

26:39

But it'll be less streety, like the pictures will be less street and more like

26:44

environmental kind of travel kind of thing.

26:48

Do you have at any point you're going to do something with all these pictures

26:51

other than just put them on Instagram I mean. At this point, you've been doing it so long. Yeah, I mean.

26:57

And you're probably going to keep doing it. I'm going to probably keep doing it. Yeah, I mean, the point is that because it's such a long-running thing,

27:03

I'm sure I will do something with it, with them.

27:06

I can, I had Gary Winogrand on the brain. I don't know why.

27:11

But anyways, I have started, and we're talking about biases when I'm taking

27:14

pictures. And one of the things is getting pictures when they're sitting in a row, like on a bench.

27:19

And I've got probably 12 of those already. Right, he had people lined up on

27:24

a bench with their, and what I'm most appealing, and we're getting into composition,

27:28

but what appeals to me the most is the directions their feet are pointed.

27:32

Each person has a different way they point their feet or the way their feet

27:35

rest on the pavement, right? That's interesting. Yeah, if you look at it, if you look at the Winogrand picture,

27:41

that's the World's Fair in 1964, 64, that picture of his,

27:46

where that's the most, the most splendid example of how everyone's legs are

27:52

configured. It's all different.

27:54

And so, so it's the same, it's, it's the same when I take these groups of people.

27:59

I mean, I'm not, I want to make sure that their faces are in focus,

28:02

which is great, but it's like she's sitting in her feet are together and they're

28:05

pointing this way and the guy's sitting here and his heels are together and that's weird.

28:09

And then the kid sitting here and he's got, you know, his, his,

28:12

you know, he's rolled over on his ankles on opposites. And it's like, it's all crazy.

28:17

And so that is something I would have never noticed. I mean, well, yeah,

28:23

But anyway, it's just a little bit of, you know, whatever you want to call it,

28:28

a little bit of joy I get out of shooting those kinds of compositions.

28:32

You know, like their personalities are represented in how they put their feet on the ground.

28:40

It's true. It's sort of like where they are in that state. Well,

28:43

this person is clearly bored. This person is, you know, feet are flat and pointed straight ahead.

28:48

They're a little bit more goal-oriented or they want to get out of there or whatever it is.

28:52

It's just it's just a fun it's just a fun detail

28:55

and it's a thing that you can

28:58

observe in life that doesn't have a lot of high stakes you

29:01

know you're just creating these things discovering them and then when they're

29:05

revealed in the images they give you a little kick so so anyway so i mean i

29:09

could in terms of a personal project i could just do and i think i'd i'd on

29:13

someone had made a comment on i think it was facebook and i said i got enough

29:18

bench pictures i mean through Through my whole,

29:20

you know, last few years,

29:23

I could maybe do a little book or a zine just on people sitting on benches.

29:28

So what are you waiting for? I don't know. Maybe I should do it.

29:32

Just call it Bench and then, you know, have it. That's a great idea.

29:37

So I'll do that. Actually, all right. Not to take, not to, but I've done a lot

29:41

of that on Ocean Parkway too. Oh, I have a picture of two ladies with a dog on Ocean Parkway.

29:48

Yeah. that's kind of how it got started with going into full

29:51

street photography mode was starting

29:55

walking down ocean walking up and down ocean parkway

29:59

photographing people sitting on benches in

30:02

fact i got a shot which i haven't processed yet from this morning because i'm

30:07

coming home from coffee and like there's two people as a hasidic couple on the

30:11

benches and i was like oh they're they have character yeah but i didn't have

30:16

my camera with me i just used my phone and And I actually like those kind of

30:19

pictures. So, yeah. All right. So, yeah, so the, this project is going to go on. I'll probably work right through

30:26

till Sunday and I'm posting, you know, most of the hits up on Instagram.

30:31

I don't mind sharing them. I'm not, I'm not, it's part of my process right now

30:36

to share pretty much everything that's, that works out.

30:40

I'm not a hoarder that way. I know there's some, some photographers that want

30:45

to keep all the best to themselves so they can, you know, think about and rethink

30:50

their processing. So I don't mind rethinking my processing in public.

30:53

I don't care. I'm not precious about that.

30:57

And if a book comes out of it or a zine, maybe a zine, I could bang one together

31:02

probably sooner than later.

31:04

Sounds like zine material to me. Yeah.

31:07

I'll do it. All right. I think I'll do it. Anyway, it's fun getting lots of

31:11

exercise. Things are good. Can we segue into, like, there's a dovetail into kind of what I want to talk about.

31:19

Well, what I was going to say, and this is my hackneyed segue now,

31:23

is what I really loved about doing the Stampede Heads project is I like everything about the process.

31:32

Not just shooting, but also the doing of it, of the walking around and seeing,

31:38

visualizing, shooting, getting home, uploading the pictures.

31:42

And as soon as I can, as soon as the upload is finished in the layroom,

31:46

I am in there editing. Okay. Music.

31:59

Relationship to that i mean i didn't think i'd have anything to talk about today but after having,

32:05

a bit of a chat with my friend this morning gino and he was talking he was just

32:14

relaying an experience he was having having gone to a sort of a hired shoot in new mexico,

32:21

tagging along with a with another class hold on opie you cannot play with that,

32:26

it's not he's like going after

32:29

my headphones you can't play with that buddy so you

32:33

know him being you know

32:36

a seasoned professional you know experienced photographer and then being with

32:43

other you know students who are who are photographing a subject and as he was

32:48

describing it okay he's gonna leave sorry as he was describing it i was thinking

32:52

how the difference between,

32:54

I want to say professionals. It's not professional because it's not about making money, but someone who's

32:59

seasoned as a photographer and someone who's not seasoned, who's just getting into photography.

33:06

I'm around a lot of those people often because of the classes I teach.

33:09

So I get to, you know, and so is he. He teaches a lot as well.

33:14

So we're amongst the people who are learning for the first time. Anyway, this idea that.

33:23

A photographer, someone in experience can be at an event or a situation and

33:28

both simultaneously experience the event and document it.

33:35

And, oh, so what popped in my mind was I'm filming the concerts in Brooklyn

33:42

during the summer every once in a while.

33:44

It's called Celebrate Brooklyn and it's a Manning, one of three cameras, right?

33:49

And so I'm in a kind of a center camera position. musician

33:52

and it's a concert right and so one would

33:55

think that you know my friend he

33:59

asked me like you know you'll enjoy the concerts and it made me think

34:02

about like like yeah you know actually i can enjoy the concerts and

34:05

film them simultaneously maybe not at the the highest level of enjoyment because

34:10

i have a job to do right so i have to record and have to listen to the director

34:14

and blah blah but i can listen to the music and i can see the fun and i can

34:21

And so I tuck some of that away. And then also when I was filming, obviously I'm talking about video right now,

34:26

but when I was filming a live television show also for brick and they would

34:32

have people talking and maybe it was a really interesting discussion.

34:36

I could listen to that discussion simultaneously with filming it,

34:40

right. Listening to the director and stuff like that. And so, you know, one's kind of muscle memory in a way I think,

34:45

and the other is, you know, a different part of my brain is,

34:49

is in there like listening. So anyway, we came up, I was thinking about this

34:51

idea of like, as a experienced photographer, let's, let's just talk about photography.

34:56

You can be doing something like in your case, the stampede walking around and

35:02

enjoying the event of it and also recording it in the way that you're recording it.

35:09

Whereas someone who's not as experienced, who hasn't spent much time is going

35:14

to experience the entire event through their camera.

35:17

All right. Now, does that make any sense? Like...

35:21

Or struggling to use the camera while they're in the event. Maybe not struggling to use it.

35:25

You know, I would, you know, if, if you're struggling to use it,

35:28

then it's like, I think all bets are off. Then the whole experience is a frustration because you're not experiencing the

35:34

event or the, whatever you're trying to photograph and you're fighting,

35:37

like understanding why your camera's doing certain things.

35:40

So you're, you're kind of, you're out of the whole situation.

35:43

Right now, as I'm saying this to you, the, a thing that just popped in my mind

35:48

was when I was doing stock photography and this is obviously a while ago and

35:54

I went, it was one time I went, well, I went to a lot of places,

35:57

but I remember when I went to Germany and I was photographing,

36:02

I think it was in Heidelberg and there's this, I'm hoping that's the right city.

36:07

There's this bridge there, this really old bridge.

36:10

And I was, I was photographing on one side of it. And then when I got home eventually,

36:14

you know, I'm looking at the pictures and I'm looking at, and I've talked about,

36:17

but we've talked about this before. Like my memory of the experience was that photograph.

36:22

Cause I was looking through the, the lens and, and I'm thinking about that now

36:27

is I'm not a very seasoned travel photographer.

36:31

So I'm also overwhelmed by the, by the, the newness of this place.

36:36

I've never been to Germany. I've never seen something like this before.

36:39

I'm going to look through the camera. So my experience was narrowed down to looking at through the viewfinder, right?

36:46

I not all the time i'm not going to say like i didn't have

36:49

a good time or something like that but when i was shooting i was not paying attention

36:51

to the to the history now i'm i'm

36:55

sure i'm not sure like if i went

36:58

to some place new i probably have that same experience but like like even

37:01

for what you're talking about you're going to this place for 10 days even if

37:04

you were going to this for the first time that first few days you'd get

37:07

it wow out of your system yeah and then

37:10

and then you would be like okay now i know what i have to do right

37:13

and then you you would settle into that flow state i don't know if that's the

37:16

right word to call it or something yeah so i'm i'm thinking about what that

37:22

first of all i don't know there's a name for it and flow state is kind of generic

37:26

i wouldn't want to say that and is i'm sure you're posing a question and we can hash this out a.

37:38

You know being experiencing the a

37:41

world through the lens only or then

37:45

eventually you know being able to

37:48

experience the both at the same time

37:50

it might making sense so you

37:53

know think about this yeah it's it's the

37:56

act of seeing and practice seeing in the photographic context

38:00

so if i go back to the sports

38:03

photography i've done helps to understand the

38:06

sport that you're shooting and so you

38:09

learn to anticipate what's going on that's one

38:12

thing right so you prepare yourself that's

38:15

the practical part of it and you you but

38:18

the practical part and and when i'm shooting street i know i have an idea i

38:24

don't know i have an idea what compositions work very quickly in in any given

38:30

moment like the picture that i want to take i'll say oh they're lined up the

38:36

right way i think I'll get this. I'll shoot this.

38:40

And I'm, I'm both have confidence enough to want to take the picture,

38:44

but reserve a little bit of humility for the possibility that it may not work.

38:51

I won't be tripping over the fact that, oh, this is just going to suck what I'm doing. Right.

38:56

Right. I'm going to interrupt you. Okay. Because when you came to New York.

39:00

Yeah. It was a brand new experience for you. Yeah. Yeah.

39:04

Like you've never been there. And, and we talked about this before on the show

39:08

and the one walk we took and I'm pointing out places.

39:12

Yeah. Oh, this is where I was. Yeah. And there's a part of you like saying, shut the front door.

39:20

I want to take pictures. what I get what you're talking about but you're sort

39:25

of skipping the part about like, being in tune with like okay you're you're unless you're unless I interrupted

39:32

before you got to it you're talking about taking the pictures I'm talking about

39:35

like you're doing this thing that you know how to do and can you.

39:41

Experience like could you walk down the street with me

39:44

take pictures and then also pay attention

39:48

to like oh this is this is an important location this

39:52

is this is interesting him like it's a two mindset like when i thought you were

39:55

in new york you were doing kind of the same thing and i was doing when i was

39:58

in germany i was like i i you're well maybe not well but the way you're describing

40:03

is like you're talking about it like well go ahead no i was gonna get there

40:08

and it was like Like for me, get the practical part out of the way so you don't have to worry about it and

40:14

you can move your energy up into the seeing part.

40:18

And then the camera, the shooting part, you're less worried about that.

40:25

But you had to graduate to that. You didn't just drop into the space.

40:28

No, that's true. With both. I guess what I'm trying to say is that, yes, certainly not that day.

40:36

That day was and i'm not you know

40:39

it doesn't bother me like that no no i just bring it

40:42

up as it's a good example i think it's a good example of

40:44

this yeah i mean if you're going to someplace for enough time yeah

40:48

you you get that sort of transition i don't know if someone who's a beginner

40:52

or someone who's just like you know maybe someone who's not as experienced and

40:58

i don't know i'm trying to come up with the perfect phrase but i can't it was

41:03

just getting behind the camera for the first time and say they know their equipment, but like,

41:09

like I said, we'll experience whatever they are through the lens and not simultaneously

41:15

through the lens and through their own body or through their own experience.

41:18

So, you know, if you were dropped in New York for one day.

41:23

Yeah. You'd probably be on the, be quiet, I want to take pictures.

41:28

Yeah, but that. Maybe? Yeah, but maybe that's a part of my neurodiversity, though, too, right?

41:34

I mean, I know my wife, she could do three things at the same time.

41:39

She can quilt and barely look or knit and barely look at what she's doing, watch TV.

41:45

That's interesting. And talk about what we're going to have for dinner at the

41:48

same time. I cannot do that.

41:50

I see. I see. I mean, I don't know. we're taking

41:53

it off the rails that's interesting but i mean that's some

41:56

people have an easier time of it than others i just

42:00

like my experience of we use

42:03

the stampede as an example my experience there is

42:06

to is or my intention is to

42:09

get into a flow state so i can create these images

42:12

at the back end and i put aside a lot of any other things personal comfort whatever

42:19

it is it got very warm this year there's the there's a whole bunch of different

42:24

shades here so yeah maybe that's not maybe that's not a good example of it though

42:29

yeah you've been going to the same place for years, you know again using the example that i was talking with gino this morning it

42:36

was is you know a group of students who are going to see something for the first

42:40

time and then he was there and i think it was what he was describing it was

42:44

another instructor hired a bunch of he He lives in New Mexico.

42:48

So it was for the Santa Fe workshops and another instructor hired some low riders

42:54

for a photo shoot and brought the students with an, and Gino went with them

42:59

and, and he approached the situation a lot differently.

43:03

He was able to sort of step back, you know, he'd, as far as I could tell,

43:06

he'd never photographed like this. I mean, he's done some porch, he's done porches before, but he's mostly a landscape

43:11

photographer. So this is unlike his usual style.

43:14

And, and, you know, he was able to watch the students photograph.

43:17

And, and the way he was describing it, I was picturing, you know,

43:20

this was sort of the exaggerated idea in my mind, but like people were just

43:24

walking around with their cameras to their eyes and, and, and photographing

43:27

what was there, you know, and, and he was adjusting and moving around and maybe positioning people and getting them to post.

43:35

Like, you know, there was all this stuff going on and that's what gave me the,

43:39

like, he was kind of looking at it almost like a 10,000 foot level and then

43:43

being able to drop down when he needed to.

43:46

Right. And the students, and they're students, fine. I mean, it's not a criticism.

43:54

But it's such a narrow focus or something.

44:00

The understanding of what the potentials are of exercising creativity in a new context.

44:06

Right, right. And you can mark it down to someone who needs to,

44:12

you know, this is the first time they're doing this. So of course there's going to be this experience.

44:17

And so is it a matter of time? Like do this enough times, but yeah.

44:22

If you've been doing this time as a photographer, you can be dropped into almost any situation.

44:26

And again, I'm painting photographers with a broad brush or experienced photographers,

44:29

but you can, you know, a photographer who's been photographing for years can,

44:34

could use a Diana camera. It could be dropped in on a wedding and probably shoot a pretty good,

44:39

you know what I mean? Like there's all this kind of stuff that we can do.

44:42

And I mean, obviously I'm the way I'm describing it. It's like,

44:44

yeah, well it is an experience thing. The more things that you do,

44:47

the more likely you're going to be able to drop into this.

44:50

And you know how do you how

44:54

can you move well i'm not

44:57

sure i'm posing the right questions i'm not sure where to go with this it's just

45:00

it's something tangible that that that

45:03

i can see happening and i just don't think it's only about experience no like

45:08

okay so like you see these these students these people that are new to it what

45:15

do they what are the observations they impart part to you when they're shooting

45:19

what is what are they struggling with or what are they telling you,

45:22

like maybe that'll give us some kind of idea oh that's a good question that's a good question.

45:31

What do they struggle with i mean usually it's it's it's going out the really

45:36

only time i do photography like that is when i did my street photography class

45:39

yeah and actually i do when they come back, I asked them what their challenges were.

45:46

You know, I was like, you went out for a half an hour. What kind of challenges do you come across?

45:50

And I was going to speak generically. A lot of the challenges are not,

45:55

shoot, how do I describe it?

45:57

It does feel very micro.

46:01

Okay. Yeah. Like micro focused on something.

46:07

And I'm not sure if this is making sense. You might have to coax me a little bit in this. Coach me.

46:11

Well, Well, I think what I'm wondering is some, I've heard the expression that

46:15

when you're going on shooting street, especially everything's so familiar to

46:19

you that you feel like you're trying to make something out of nothing.

46:23

That's one thing that I can imagine myself feeling being new.

46:28

Like, what is it? We're just walking down the street. It's the same stupid cars

46:31

and people. Like I see this every day. Every day. How could it be interesting?

46:35

How can it be different? How can, yeah. That's one thing. That, that definitely comes up. on occasion and one of the

46:43

things i do to to before i send them out is to try to get them,

46:51

to look i always describe the vase right the vase you can either see the two

46:55

faces or you can see the vase i'm like i want you to see the two faces right i want you to see the,

47:00

other way around because like once you start crossing that.

47:03

Once you cross that threshold, the world, it's like the world looks different.

47:07

It's like you've taken the, what is it? You've taken the red pill. Yeah.

47:11

Yeah. I mean, that's an extreme. It's not like. No, no, but it's a metaphor.

47:14

But it's kind of like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It is kind of like that. You've crossed over in some way.

47:18

And like, how can you do that in one day? Well, not very easy. No. Not very easy to do.

47:23

So when I talk about their challenges being micro, like there's,

47:26

they're often focused on some small detail

47:30

without getting into any kind of craziness

47:33

about it but like like rather than like the overall like what

47:36

was the overall issues that you were having they'll they'll

47:39

automatically come back to me and say i couldn't get

47:42

the camera to focus i didn't know how to use this but like that

47:45

person like the the bicyclist was

47:49

all the way over there you know like these little things like

47:52

that is that making sense yeah it is and it's part of now

47:56

it's kind of a holistic thing where you shot

47:59

this picture that was you thought was going to be great and it didn't work out

48:02

and then you look at you start looking at your pictures that didn't work out

48:07

as missed opportunities and that that starts to pile up on you from a creative

48:12

point of view like even if you're shooting and like oh i missed this i missed

48:15

this i missed this it there tends to be negative.

48:19

You get this negative feedback loop going and it's not really the point street

48:24

photographer sort of is definitely by its nature low hit rate so that's that's in street but.

48:32

I'm trying to think you don't want to go shoot speed skating or

48:35

something that really kind of unfamiliar with the the

48:39

struggle is is understanding the sport knowing where the athletes are going

48:45

to be anticipating and i go back to that it's just what is it that i should

48:51

be looking for there's not a sense of what it is i should be looking for when i'm shooting,

48:56

and you feel like you're disconnected yeah so

49:00

even like with street photography is you understand street photography so no

49:03

matter where you are you can you can do it you can

49:06

sort of drop in yeah me yeah i

49:09

mean when i went to mexico it was i was

49:12

caught in the awe of the old architecture and the

49:15

way it's lit and how beautiful the people were and all

49:17

of that kind of stuff like you know like your

49:20

day trip to to times square you know what

49:23

there's all this stuff going on and it's

49:26

to calm down and you know you use what

49:30

you have to create it i don't know i didn't really finish

49:33

that thought but oh i'm sorry i didn't mean to no no no it wasn't that it wasn't

49:37

that it was not a fully formed thought anyway it was it was just a kind of way

49:40

of you know what is it that doesn't derail you can't derail something that's

49:45

not there you know where do you begin in when you're new to something creative like that.

49:51

One of the things I, I disclaim in the class, this is my, again,

49:56

my only, my street photographer. I said like, you're going to go out for.

49:59

A half an hour, 40 minutes, whatever the time allows. And I said,

50:02

you are not going to take a good picture. Yeah. And, and, you know, like, you know, I get all these long faces,

50:09

you know, and I was like, don't worry about it. Like, this is not, you know, this is not a race, you know, you're going to go

50:15

out there and you're going to, you're going to see stuff and you're going to

50:19

try to get it and you're not going to take a group. You might take a good picture. It's possible, but the chances of you getting

50:23

a good picture in a half an hour after taking 20 you know, hour and a half class

50:27

with me is pretty impossible. So that's kind of interesting when you say like the, you know,

50:32

one of the things I probably should say to them is that, you know, street photography is a low hit rate.

50:35

You know, it's one of the things I didn't, I've never really kind of expressed

50:38

to them because I think they, I think that's, I think that's part of the.

50:43

Frustration that I see is they're going to spend time in a class,

50:47

even if it's a three hour one off class and like that, they're going to, you know, someone's

50:49

going to spend time talking to them they got this equipment therefore they should

50:53

be able to grab a good shot and be able to experience that and they don't they

50:57

don't have they don't have a good experience and again i'm again broad brushing

51:01

here but yeah they don't have a good experience they don't come out with good

51:04

photographs and and it's not a relaxing experience and again this is just a matter of.

51:12

Experience and doing it over and over again but maybe even not i mean i don't know what would

51:16

make this easier for them to do

51:19

but and also you know one of the things i end up

51:22

my in my class with is like have fun right it's

51:25

a picture of me taking a photograph out of a car window it's

51:28

taking a picture of me through the rearview mirror i don't know why i used that

51:32

picture but it just feels like like it was like a fun experience like for like

51:37

looking out the window photographing all the world but every now and then taking

51:43

a fun picture of myself right Right. That was kind of my idea.

51:46

Right. So the idea is like, have fun. And to me, having fun is being able to

51:51

listen to the concert while I'm filming it.

51:53

Right. Like it's not, you know, it can be a job.

51:56

Sure. I can get very tense about it and I can switch my brain off and on to

52:02

deal with the situation. Yeah. I got a static shot here, so I don't have to move. I can listen to the

52:07

music and enjoy it and whatever. Right.

52:10

And so how to get the people to do that.

52:13

I don't know if it's just experience you you were just mentioning

52:16

before that you're not able to think three things at once like i couldn't be

52:21

an air traffic controller i can't deal with things also multiple you know things

52:25

going on and i don't think it's a requirement to be a photographer at all i

52:30

don't think you need to have this to brain state or whatever i'm going to call it in order to do that.

52:37

Again, it's this thing of, of, as a photographer is beginning to get into something,

52:42

or even if you're just like I said, maybe in the case of like visiting someplace

52:45

for the first time or going someplace for the first time and not being able to forgive themselves,

52:50

like understanding, maybe that's it.

52:53

Like understanding, oh yeah, I can't do this yet.

52:57

Like I can't separate my experience from the act of photography.

53:03

Like I've got to do one or the other and maybe them I'm thinking I should be able to do both.

53:09

I should be able to have a good time. I should be able to understand this. So I don't know.

53:13

Well, no, it's interesting. Well, again, I think it goes to the familiarity

53:16

with what it is you're doing. And the more, the more you do, I mean, the more you do it, the more confident and so on.

53:22

And that helps with your, I mean, street photography, I really think is,

53:27

you have to really want to, oh, for me anyway, you would have to enjoy the act of doing it.

53:37

You're yet to see people you get you know it's

53:41

the ultimate staring you know the ultimate people watching thing

53:44

right yeah you get really end up like a barry winogrand who photographs more

53:49

than you know looks at no i'm not saying that i mean that's that's what he's

53:54

i'm not so i'm just trying to think of my hit rate so how many i would shoot

53:57

my first first stampede here so i typically Typically,

54:01

let's just say ballpark.

54:04

I'll shoot about 400 frames a day. I'll probably get four images that are worth putting on Instagram.

54:11

That's pretty good. It's pretty good for that, I think.

54:15

And you come back fulfilled, though. Oh, absolutely.

54:19

I come back fulfilled even if I, well, no. I would feel bad if I couldn't read

54:25

the memory stick when I got home. Well, forgetting the technical issue. But what do you mean? It's like you've

54:31

had a good experience altogether. Yeah. It's not just the photography part. I had hope, right?

54:35

I'm like, oh, that young couple that were, you know, doing whatever.

54:39

Like, I got that. I think I got that.

54:42

You can see I'm trying to get you to talk about the experience of being there,

54:45

though. Yeah. Not just the photography part. Maybe you're resisting. No, I don't know.

54:51

I'm just not thinking in that way. The act of being there, I do love.

54:56

Well, you like being there. Oh, yeah. So there's some part of that that's drawn to you. Anyway, I guess I'm trying

55:02

to get you to get into the two-mind thing.

55:06

That's why maybe the Stampede is not a good example, because you've been going there for so long.

55:11

And you know it, you know, and I think anybody who was doing what you're doing

55:15

would, would perhaps have the same results, but yeah. Yeah, that's true.

55:21

Just, you know, I'm just trying to think, well, let's, okay.

55:23

If we take, if we're still talking about me, which I like to do, let's see.

55:29

I think of another project. Last summer when I was taking pictures of those

55:32

women, the women project,

55:35

which is, that was really cool because I'm in the presence of these people that

55:44

I love. And so there's that.

55:47

And there's the sharing their presence and photographing them by the way.

55:52

Right. You know, that was very loose. It was not me and not my pointed...

55:59

Strong observations of trying to get something out of the situation it's like

56:03

yeah oh she's sitting down over here i'll just get up and take this picture

56:07

and continue the conversation. That was that has a better example about photography yeah

56:12

that's very that's very fulfilling in terms of that in a lot of ways sorry to

56:19

interrupt but this is what i think good documentary photographers can do right

56:24

is is they're not just a fly on the wall right like if they're doing you know

56:30

some sort of long story i'm thinking like, eugene smith with the country doctor shot that's

56:35

such a good series yeah i can't imagine that he was

56:38

just a fly on the wall like somehow he's in there

56:41

or mini mata where he's actually part of the story yeah itself

56:45

right and and so he's able to come

56:48

at it from being involved in some

56:52

way which you know whatever and and

56:55

and knowing like knowing what you're going

56:58

after and creating the photography so you're talking about almost the

57:01

exact same thing yeah and the different contexts too

57:04

right one's a woman i've known for 40 years one is a woman who my aunt who that

57:11

was my last visit with her before she passed and then my mother who's in her

57:15

80s and all the all the feelings that go along with hanging around your mom

57:19

you know right so that was That was a good weekend.

57:23

That was a good, you know, that was a good experience. And really,

57:26

my memories of that are not the photographs. It's the being with them.

57:30

Right, right. And, but that will...

57:34

Is that definitely comes out in your photographs too, right? Yeah.

57:38

Like you're, you're, you're, the merging of the art and the experience is certainly

57:46

coming out, comes out with photographs that you produce from that.

57:49

You can, you can feel it. Yeah. Whereas someone who's doing say that for the first time, you can sense in the

57:56

pictures that there's not a, there's not a connection.

58:00

Right. There's, I'm just doing this task. task right for something like that

58:05

so that's actually a much better we should have gone more on that example but

58:09

i think that's a good and that's a good way to start making notes

58:12

we gotta start making notes but this is fine because we're we're actually doing

58:15

a trying to do a quicker show tonight because you gotta get out i gotta eat

58:19

dinner and uh i i'd like to table this like for maybe talking with someone else

58:27

about it be great to bring in a third person on this,

58:30

maybe even Gino, get him to talk about this as well.

58:33

And we'll talk to him about getting him on the show and talking a bunch of stuff.

58:37

And I'm really curious about this student experience too.

58:40

Like when I was asking you, you know, cause I'm not really that much of an instructor.

58:46

I really like to see, you know, in all of his time teaching at the Santa Fe

58:51

workshops, what he's seen and what, what students grapple with.

58:57

That's fascinating to me. He'd love to be on the show. Yeah. I'll work on it. I'll find a time where we can get to talk to him.

59:03

Sure. That'd be great. I think, looking at our clock, you want to get out and

59:07

shoot, and I want to eat dinner. And so...

59:11

Where are we looking for you in the world? Sure.

59:15

You can find me on Vero and X at WRosinPhoto.

59:21

I'm on Instagram at WardRosinFineArt.

59:24

Facebook, you can find me at WardRosinPhoto. I have my website,

59:28

which is rosin.ca. That's R-O-S-I-N dot C-A.

59:33

And our unofficial sponsor is Ornis Photo. Unofficial sponsor.

59:36

Yes. Ornis. Ornis.photo, where I sell.

59:40

What do I sell? I sell 7 Artisans lenses and lens adapters for Fuji X and Sony E-mount.

59:49

All kinds of different things. Those 7 Artisans people are coming up with a

59:52

whole bunch of stuff these days. There's a lot of new.

59:55

I know you're not covering all that stuff, but I've been seeing a lot of new

1:00:00

lenses popping up on YouTube with these either TT Artisans or 7 Artisans.

1:00:05

I don't know why they have two different names, different companies,

1:00:09

and they have the same name. but perhaps some more names.

1:00:12

Yeah. Yeah. How do we make, how do we make, how do we make you guys our official sponsor again?

1:00:18

I don't know. What did we say? I don't know. We'll figure that out.

1:00:21

Anybody got any ideas about how to make Orna's photo the official sponsor?

1:00:24

I have to give you money, I think, is how we make it.

1:00:27

Oh, well, you are, but you're getting your time. Maybe you aren't.

1:00:29

Well, I still like the unofficial sponsor. Yeah, it's a nice running joke. It's good. Yeah.

1:00:34

What about you, my friend? Where can we find you and the internets?

1:00:37

You can find me sitting on my computer, on my butt here.

1:00:42

Mostly on, where am I these days? You know, Vero.

1:00:47

And Flickr is at AM Rosario. Instagram is at AM Rosario photo.

1:00:53

My other site with my other AM Rosario and Instagram was hacked.

1:00:56

You can see my photographs. There's just don't follow me there.

1:00:58

Yeah. My website is am Rosario.com and go to Facebook. I've been posting a lot of stuff on Facebook.

1:01:06

I know it's old people's territory, but you know, so what? Facebook.com Rosario photo.

1:01:12

And why don't you subscribe to our sub stack newsletter? I know I said I was

1:01:16

going to put out a newsletter last time. I didn't. I got, I'm about to get one up, the coming out. It's going to be coming from Ward actually.

1:01:24

So subscribe to our, subscribe to our streetshots.substack.com.

1:01:31

And yeah, leave us a voicemail at speakpipe.com slash streetshots.

1:01:36

And if you want to support the channel, channel, I'm not, this is not YouTube.

1:01:41

If you want to support this show buy us

1:01:44

a coffee at buymeacoffee.com slash antonio rosario

1:01:48

and yeah i've got some uh yeah i realized i do wanted to put out a newsletter

1:01:53

i haven't i just want to take your article that we were talking about put it

1:01:57

out there i'll get that done uh but yeah we've been getting some sub stack people

1:02:01

and i've got some ideas for some stuff i want to write so yeah,

1:02:06

great but other than that you know we're in the middle of the sweat july you

1:02:10

want to get out and go to your Rodeo street shop and stuff.

1:02:16

And I got to eat something soon before I get crazy.

1:02:21

Okay. So thanks for joining me tonight. I really appreciate it.

1:02:24

Always a pleasure, my friend. Yeah. And everybody else, look forward to talking to you by the end of July.

1:02:31

So have a good next couple of weeks and good evening to you all.

1:02:37

Music.

1:02:43

Make rhubarb crisp oh my god

1:02:46

it was so good with ice cream and this is

1:02:48

all with oysters somewhere oh no there were oysters on the charcuterie board

1:02:52

first because you need that oh i love oysters you know how to shuck them uh

1:03:01

i have done it um but i i could use some practice i don't we're completely

1:03:07

landlocked here so there isn't much opportunity to see it or eat them fresh

1:03:12

so yeah you know you get them out of the can with the cottonseed oil and you do your best,

1:03:19

hey it's the oysters unless you cook them unless you fry them like deep fry

1:03:23

the oysters i i could never eat those things until elizabeth taught me how to

1:03:30

and then from now on i was like Like I am oyster king.

1:03:33

Yeah. I mean, there's, I know you don't eat that many.

1:03:36

It's like one of a bunch of other options. Most of the time I'm putting on my,

1:03:40

you know, an inoffensive cheese. I could throw in a dozen of them. No, I'm saying fresh oysters. Yes.

1:03:47

I'm talking those little, those little boogers that come in the flat tin.

1:03:52

You know, they, they, you put them on a piece of cheese and you douse it with

1:03:57

hot sauce and you hope, right? Music.