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sit down
1:07
This. Is radio lab last year
1:10
a cyber attack disrupted the colonial
1:12
pipeline is big your for cybercrime
1:14
the up the I come from it's investigative
1:16
one hundred different types of ran?
1:18
Somewhere attacks, according to the F.B. b I.
1:21
saw the amount of money taken by Ran somewhere has
1:23
gone up, be more than a thousand
1:25
percent over the past five years and.
1:27
It's got to thinking about this episode we did
1:29
on this new kind of crime
1:31
way back, and it's relatively quaint early
1:33
days and twenty fifth team called
1:36
Dark coat
1:39
Hey, I'm John Abu Rod, I'm Robert Krulwich,
1:41
this is radio lab, and today, well, today
1:43
we're going to tell you a story which we hope
1:46
does not become your future, but it raises
1:48
simple question.
1:49
We all have computers, we love computers,
1:51
we depend upon computers, but what is the cost
1:53
of using your computer becomes more
1:56
than you're willing to pay to stories
1:58
today? Which suggests. That we might
2:00
be at the very beginning.
2:02
If a nightmare, the
2:04
first comes from journalist
2:07
Alina Simone and her mother email to
2:11
her. She only got in
2:13
touch with me, maybe on days that I took him
2:15
to me. Oh, yeah. Okay. So
2:17
what? Yeah. day one? That was the first
2:19
thing that happened.
2:20
On day one here,
2:22
Palm Desert, a call tufts
2:25
university eighty services
2:28
because of mine has been self,
2:30
said starts complaining that's
2:32
my computer is unbearably
2:35
number of bliss slow.
2:36
They still made, yeah, don't know what's going on every time
2:38
I try to open a window, it's like click.
2:43
Practically, stop to work in
2:45
what do I do?
2:46
They checked whatever said
2:48
and probably nothing reboot
2:50
is so did Nurse and basically
2:53
them. He went away for the weekend. Then
2:55
when they came that.
2:58
John the him sit on and,
3:01
a like it was doing
3:03
since and He and.
3:06
In for many, many windows.
3:08
Covering her screen. Mm,
3:11
the those windows multiplied,
3:13
stooped to do they cannot open
3:16
new of them and they could not
3:18
see give that it was very latest
3:20
nice. So you.
3:22
and bed The next day.
3:25
That again asking
3:27
for help.
3:28
"They are no idea what's going on, know says this
3:30
point whenever the computer been doing" From
3:32
them. The window of this city
3:34
and.
3:35
Had now any time she tried to collect any
3:38
of your files?
3:38
The to me guess I
3:41
cannot open a new of them.
3:43
Instead, every time this message
3:45
would Papa. And the man said says.
3:48
What happened to your files
3:50
love my file of yours I've
3:52
been protected, strong encryption
3:54
and encrypted using crypto
3:56
wall this means that the structure
3:58
and data within your thoughts. We have been irrevocably
4:01
changed. The in order
4:04
to give them back.
4:05
How to unlock files, you must
4:07
pay $500 US dollars. If
4:09
you really value your data, then
4:11
we suggest that you do not waste valuable time
4:14
searching for the solutions because
4:16
they do not You're
4:18
saying Somebody went into your
4:20
computer and locked up all of your things. Yeah.
4:23
They gave me an exact
4:25
count 5726
4:29
files encrypted with you say,
4:31
they did, you have any image
4:33
in your head of who? My editor thought
4:35
was Russia.
4:37
Or? Ukraine, which is even
4:39
but why, because
4:42
you know everybody talks about
4:44
excellent, fantastic education
4:46
there, especially Mass I'm
4:49
from that I know you know she's right,
4:51
they surpass the U.S. s And educating
4:53
their kids when it comes to math and science,
4:56
and they've got a severe
4:58
under employment problem, especially
5:00
outside of the major cities, which is where these
5:02
viruses often. trace down to not Moscow
5:04
and St Petersburg what we're talking about, you know, backwater,
5:07
I was so positive that
5:10
a it comes from that part
5:12
of the ruled that I
5:14
wrote. them in the
5:16
rush and.
5:17
Apparently, the criminals who had provided or a link to website
5:20
where she could send them message, you know, customer
5:22
support.
5:22
I. wrote them so
5:24
let's see if those two a dumb
5:27
home from to translated into English
5:29
more, direct less, some, some like
5:31
I was feel all die or
5:33
during their. Dark are biased
5:35
and in Reston language, the
5:37
reserved to die
5:40
for your months or and
5:42
that's ever fly anymore. That
5:44
use the animal was, yeah.
5:45
Not a girls but you're
5:48
they got the message.
5:49
Now penises she thought about
5:51
Ah just wiping the computer clean so that she wouldn't
5:53
have to pay for. them the correct or
5:56
that are husband had all these files on their
5:58
list singing and it you know like this This
6:00
receipt to the and filed yet.
6:01
He's lazy to do so I can print
6:03
so foul and she's right that, like you
6:05
know, she has this tax information, this
6:07
reimbursement information ultimately it's
6:09
worth more than five hundred dollars my
6:12
husband didn't phone to play. The overall
6:14
teams.
6:17
Then. into decides to follow
6:19
the insults and they sit point
6:22
one download and install Tor browser
6:24
so she goes in and sells his brother called Torah,
6:26
which apparently is more trace
6:29
about. To run the browser and
6:31
wave or initialization, she does
6:33
that three help in the address
6:35
Bar Cherry Pie, seven y C. R. seven
6:37
J. Excellencies directed to a site where basically.
6:39
Tells her look if you don't trust us. We
6:41
can decrypt.
6:44
One of your files
6:46
for free as a sample
6:48
that when you pay us, you
6:50
would know that you could really
6:52
get all your files back
6:55
and
6:56
I was curious. decided
7:00
that will say.
7:01
Though she click the button, the said yes and
7:04
to look for got one. I'll
7:07
bet. But as soon
7:09
as a deemed. Their
7:12
blocks, that three kids. Then, really,
7:14
she said, little clock appear to the top the rest.
7:16
They gave me exactly as there when
7:19
they.
7:20
One hundred and sixty seven hours,
7:22
fifty nine minutes, fifty
7:24
nine seconds or so, you have secrets
7:26
of thing and then suddenly it's account.
7:28
Yes live births if you won't
7:30
play by this the them
7:33
of the five will,
7:36
this album and his the woman's
7:38
face didn't have one more
7:40
been. there was a little source
7:43
file for on Then
7:45
you will never get them back.
7:47
Now, in the messages told, you know, that she had
7:49
to pay that five hundred dollar fine, not dollars.
7:52
That in bitcoin, your A.
7:54
The do for the first time.
7:57
in my life ever life
7:59
saw The term "bit coin"?
8:02
Though I have.
8:04
found this website
8:06
Called Coin Cafe, where you can
8:08
buy bitcoin.
8:10
The end to buy this bitcoins
8:13
is a night.
8:14
Is it for what what? she
8:16
needed to do with exchange five hundred
8:18
bucks for the requisite amount of bitcoins and
8:21
at the time of five hundred bucks equaled
8:23
one point three seven bitcoins
8:26
but before she even make that exchange
8:28
sit there fill it all these forms of these questions
8:31
What happened with is the reason
8:33
to buy bitcoin as easily
8:35
as well listed, one of them was the Rams
8:37
some.
8:38
Hello there, but not on average now,
8:40
during.
8:41
Yes, it will this history them
8:43
to pay a ransom to the
8:45
criminal. Next
8:48
as you get ft belittle the forums. You
8:50
have to make bleak share
8:53
am. sam them Water grow
8:55
through the internet, okay? I
8:58
did not see like Cam.
8:59
Reboot, cause he says your camera
9:02
having been shot or.
9:03
What them that I have to
9:06
make your feet shirts of my
9:08
husband's of all the in
9:10
the driver's license
9:13
Sam? them of this
9:15
space ship back so A
9:18
banquet, the criminals know I
9:20
was.
9:20
If the people who sell
9:23
your bitcoin oh my in exchange
9:25
for your money, I told you
9:27
that it's a torch is unbelievable.
9:30
But eventually she was able to find a neighbor, bar the
9:32
camera, take the pictures she needs to take, then
9:34
she had to get the money soon to exchange
9:36
to Coin Cafe, in it turns out
9:38
the preferred way to do it the most secure way
9:40
to do it is not online by. The
9:43
or money order.
9:43
The for the day read before
9:46
this aims given whims.
9:48
They're still had about six days before
9:50
the deadline, so she thought Hi else pop down
9:52
as post office that of money. That
9:55
lies, or more
10:00
Because he the same most terrible
10:02
snowstorms for a lot of us, this
10:04
could be the biggest storm so far this
10:06
winter and drivable role
10:08
and significant snow wet snow
10:10
at them, but I have to.
10:12
Way to the Apple store, so
10:14
she plows through the snow almost killed
10:16
herself with gets their gets everything together, sends
10:19
it off. Psycho are.
10:21
So finally, I send
10:23
everything out there,
10:25
Post Office is suing me that
10:27
they will get through.
10:29
On Friday, this is the
10:31
first working day after the
10:33
same even. Okay,
10:35
so one fries. Gauguin
10:38
Cafe.
10:38
They did not get service on
10:41
Saturday if they didn't on defense
10:43
on Monday in the morning and
10:46
nothing was deliver and I
10:48
was desperate because my
10:50
deadline would use the some
10:52
suddenly felt or and. i
10:54
said well then the post office
10:57
whatever nobody knows and sniffs
10:59
it yesterday said there is
11:01
no bearing Fine
11:03
and walk. Law in the
11:05
afternoon on Monday.
11:07
Twenty four hours for the deadline they got it
11:10
C N.
11:12
They send me bitcoin.
11:15
In a change because they got my money.
11:18
But. That's when she went online to check
11:20
her bitcoin account I'm thirty
11:23
dollars for.
11:27
"The hope among other things are you
11:29
here we four hundred and then I sat
11:31
call them basically the exchange
11:34
rate of she's on her seat, bought it at five hundred
11:36
now was worth four, eighty seven say.
11:38
"Them how often do change,
11:41
they soon as it and they said there
11:43
for him" In it.
11:46
Did you hear remain as Isis
11:48
are you crazy I was
11:50
a double this term I was
11:53
with some square for?
11:55
them few books as soon as a means
11:57
vika drive and was terrible
12:00
The to friend of mine had to get
12:02
a camera, and then I was
12:04
struggling so sam
12:06
them that.
12:06
The problem with this crime, like the criminals,
12:09
need a better way to get money from the
12:11
fix the bug. Now face
12:13
of though.
12:14
I'm on the edge of my see here so sir
12:16
your thirteen dollars sure as,
12:19
as. as society
12:21
Well, and they this, and there is one
12:23
more way. One more
12:25
way. What is a vehicle
12:28
that t'm miss? miss The good.
12:31
The said what yes the
12:33
seven a t m machines one.
12:36
live one and they said where is
12:38
it It's him.
12:39
Real quiet Brooklyn, New York, own
12:42
the two hundred miles way to figure: "I don't understand
12:44
this fear is one eighty am
12:46
that is in the borough of Brooklyn Bridge, you do
12:48
not live exact loss for luckily
12:51
her daughter, alina lives in Brooklyn.
12:53
You have me as well, my daughter doesn't
12:55
love this girl. Then she call
12:57
the Lena. Yeah, my mom called me the night
12:59
before the Ransom was Duce on, Are you of
13:01
any of this at this point.
13:03
No. No, I remember. You know, was at night
13:05
the a on and I have a toddler and his,
13:07
how is things going on? I was probably
13:09
on my laptop to was doing like, 12
13:11
things and mom called, and she was like, upset
13:13
with a capital u. She started
13:16
ranting about criminals and Ransom.
13:18
I literally thought she was like
13:20
talking and Eric Lewis. I'm like, oh, yeah. know
13:22
when go to text. Yeah, that's,
13:25
that's extortion and my mom was like,
13:27
no, like no, it's really a rancid
13:29
up there. Really criminals Google
13:31
cryptowall. Plus.
13:35
a
13:36
I started Google thing as she
13:38
suggested do, and found out
13:40
the police departments had paid. This that
13:43
sheriff's department, and dicks. Tennessee.
13:45
had just paid a to unlock, like,
13:47
you know, seventy plus thousand
13:50
case files and I was like, "Yeah. Crooks
13:52
go after police department got after. There
13:54
are many universities, corporation.
13:57
The department's as the question of a club in
13:59
your my like. Why, my mom? No,
14:01
not at all, as an outlet million people
14:03
in the U.S. has been infected with. The
14:05
new very thing, yeah.
14:07
The next. day listen
14:09
six hours lesson penises to lena please
14:11
go to the say tm seconds be done with
14:13
this whole thing you can tap has
14:16
But. I can tell you that
14:18
in the morning and she said feel that
14:20
they'd pull out my grim
14:22
don't have been so, plainly
14:24
days won't be able to do.
14:26
It themselves for of O'clock the make
14:29
calls again, again survey of crazy,
14:32
don't have time, so go
14:34
out in Greenpoint this hm
14:36
and, and you know, just want. To have that little you
14:38
have your played, like
14:41
my, posts oh emergency
14:44
saw visual you sort
14:46
of, man, you know
14:48
sure as okay so I. Set, my
14:50
playdate sort this
14:52
i. forget that crusoe the green
14:56
point and they have an eighty am and
14:58
That's why did is gonna be 57 people
15:01
all lined up it's a the single ATM that
15:03
you guys were. Totally
15:04
not 5075e. Most people do take
15:06
care of this remotely. Like
15:08
there was no one expecting
15:12
the cast into an ATM. Like I have a Capital
15:14
account. I know what an ATM is, you know, but
15:17
this is not like the second floor of a
15:19
work sharespace in Brooklyn
15:21
is like in the hallway. There was like
15:23
bike hanging from wall kind of blocking
15:25
and there's like paper sign taped
15:27
to the wall. That just had printout
15:30
from the computer that just said Bitcoin ATM,
15:32
all lower case letters in an arrow
15:34
to this phone, but it
15:36
looked very Soviet like if you see the
15:38
photos of those phones with no buttons
15:40
and there's just receiver and it's
15:42
totally scary. It's like red line. Yeah.
15:44
Yeah, like, you just pick it up, and like somebody
15:46
is always on the other line or something, it
15:48
was like that, it was just this boxes,
15:50
the screen and no buttons. And
15:53
camera I hope for is, and what you
15:55
do you hold up your Q V C
15:57
code is that what they're called QVC,
15:59
what are they come? The you are.
16:02
The bike riding it. Yeah. Like about that others,
16:04
his Q. R. code and my mom
16:06
had emailed it's mean with like you need to print this
16:08
out in this is a sent this essentially gives.
16:10
You access to my account to
16:12
top it off, you know, and so I put this Q.
16:15
R. C code up to the camera I and it
16:17
kind of went group and. Then
16:19
it was like, at we are accessing
16:21
your account and then. got
16:24
a spinning wheel.
16:25
You got the wheel of death yeah no
16:28
scenario, any
16:30
such thing to be dying or mom's guys when cafe
16:33
Cobb. You know, I left like three phone messages
16:35
and my eyes left five,
16:37
so finally they called me back like
16:40
twenty minutes later said, "Okay, we're sending
16:42
a technician over to six" The machine,
16:44
which was very cool, I didn't think that would happen,
16:47
and so, you know, the technician was there
16:49
and keep peace six the machine and he's
16:51
helped me deposit these. Twenty five dollars
16:54
and then on he was there's hockey
16:56
and he was, he was like, "Yeah, you know,
16:58
he knew my mom is good or he'd been
17:01
talking to on the. Phone: He's like feel so bad for your
17:03
mom we've been getting so many of these cases and I'm
17:05
like, "Why are you flying lot of these cases,
17:07
yeah, as a?" White guys getting so
17:10
why seventh and he's like, oh, know
17:12
why, because in the ransom note that
17:14
they give a list of preferred
17:16
vendors and we're number one.
17:18
Do. What is the introduction, what a bad
17:20
introduction to bitcoins like
17:23
we're going to hold you ransom for all
17:25
your information until you know
17:27
use this new currency to pay us off?
17:29
I mean, that's a terrible, this is my coats
17:32
and John Hard, they are the corners of
17:34
Coin Cafe, I had a few weeks back
17:36
grandmother who was in tears
17:38
are. She's not lose all of our family photos
17:41
and because the deadline was coming up, you know, crying
17:43
on the phone or me, and it got is it
17:45
felt are clearly people. whom and
17:47
sell bitcoins disbelieve that there should
17:49
be digital currency that is decentralized
17:52
that doesn't rely on the banks, but unfortunately
17:54
has become the currency of choice for
17:56
ransom sincere.
17:58
and books and there and is weird This. And
18:00
thought it's tricky thing because I
18:02
can't sell bitcoin to someone who know
18:05
is gonna do something illegal with it, rape sets will
18:07
Miller, who runs a bitcoin exchange. Called Express
18:09
Coin, and he says he in the other exchanges
18:11
are really worried right now that it's cheap
18:14
helping the little guys pay the ransom, nor
18:16
to get their files. Backs, they are in sec,
18:18
making themselves accessories to crime,
18:20
I finally got a call back from our fence
18:22
and.
18:23
Which is the federal authority for
18:26
a financial crime enforcement network, they said
18:28
that. We could perceive
18:31
paying ransom as. I'm
18:33
awful activity. And so.
18:36
They might choose to use that against the company.
18:38
The who helped out, right? likely
18:40
Until we get straight answer from Fins and will take
18:43
the overly cautious approach and
18:45
start declining these transactions even though
18:47
in your heart you want to health, we I mean do.
18:49
want to risk being indicted for helping you get
18:52
your travel or is he to reimburse from
18:54
a company? I mean to mean
18:56
it is now. In
18:58
any case.
19:02
After Alenia deposits the extra
19:04
and twenty five bucks in her mom's bitcoin
19:07
account ina. the mom goes online
19:09
They're make less and it
19:11
was gone. But
19:14
then? That an hour
19:17
later.
19:17
I went to my computer,
19:20
and there was another message that
19:22
your lane. No no.
19:26
Now that I was two and
19:28
a half hour, though. The
19:31
have to pay one thousand,
19:34
three hundred dollar roughly.
19:36
I didn't love him a new budget, the John
19:39
too.
19:39
So she went to that same website where you can write
19:41
them a message.
19:42
Hi rob them that I
19:44
was delayed but as
19:46
mentioned the snow storm
19:49
the things in this
19:51
they probably send us a veil
19:53
of em the of course
19:55
of the of the wonderful us
19:59
mailed.
20:00
Then I said that tried,
20:02
and was only two.
20:05
Our late and
20:07
then all of a sudden. I'm
20:11
getting the message you paid.
20:14
In full. The
20:17
about need.
20:22
The word on my tab.
20:26
Do if they took pity on her?
20:29
Maybe a food that
20:31
is over fine now
20:33
like it is real. Or
20:35
wow?
20:43
Who's make you wonder like who these
20:45
people are we?
20:47
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23:01
one and a member ft I see.
23:06
Am. General Rod I'm Robert Krulwich
23:08
says Radio Lab, so here's the next obvious question:
23:10
who did this to, you know, I do know anything about
23:13
them, but we put that question to? chose
23:15
his men investigative reporter for Reuters
23:18
extent on a work in this area, and his
23:20
hunch was that he does right,
23:22
we're talking people Russian speaking
23:24
folks by enlarge your. Book Cause fatal
23:26
system error, which is sort of deep dive
23:28
into the Russian hacking scene, and much
23:30
of it as you'd expect, you know, young guys
23:33
early Twenties Kind. Of grubby by and
23:35
large, they do not live lavish lifestyle,
23:37
there are guys at the top of these criminal
23:39
organizations that are very flashy.
23:44
The it they're like sort of pop icon,
23:47
some of them in same way that Rap stars
23:49
harm us there's a hacker
23:51
magazine neutrinos as good as
23:53
guys with the sports cars and supermodels
23:56
and whatever you know on.
23:59
services
24:00
Discord between the morning those are the guys will
24:02
farrow the twenty year olds they hired a twenty year olds
24:04
are their franchises and he says the twenty
24:06
year old runs Nurse's. office
24:08
parks yeah it's like call center type
24:11
of atmosphere so i Is there like kiddo?
24:13
That's pretty sure Kelsey Padgett. Even in
24:16
a cubicle. The computer
24:18
board.
24:19
There is a meeting later with Judy in
24:21
HR and he's mad about it. Is
24:23
that the kind of like environment that these
24:25
people are and?
24:26
I put in for the most part, think so, yes, the
24:28
larger point is that it's not just like you're a
24:30
lone wolf pimply faced hacker. The
24:33
more is cybercrime is now super
24:35
organize, it is often corporate,
24:38
it is big business. Then. Whole
24:40
sort of economy seems to
24:42
revolve around the secrets sites
24:45
where people come together to buy and sell things
24:47
like that ransom were from or less story
24:49
urges underground Web forums. The
24:51
and there's righty, some are veiled you
24:53
can reach on the open internet, the
24:55
more impressive ones are password
24:58
protected, you know, you have to know somebody to
25:00
get. In the really says
25:02
he once you have to have couple of people
25:04
vouch for you.
25:05
You actually have to apply with your resume, your hacker's
25:07
resume here are the things I can bring, these
25:09
are the kinds of hacking exploits that I've had
25:11
and therefore should be part. If your exclusive
25:14
club.
25:17
That's the A Temple Rest and NPR Cybercrime
25:19
corresponded she's been tracking the government's
25:21
attempt to shut down some of these sites, which
25:23
she describes as.
25:24
Silver hackers, the black market bizarre,
25:27
so let's say someone is looking for a bunch
25:29
credit card numbers that have been stolen, you can
25:31
get it.
25:32
There's one price if they're Mastercard
25:34
gold and another price for you know higher
25:36
level credit, whatever.
25:37
Say a he wanted to know about
25:39
boss or an employee or girl
25:41
for.
25:42
You can get this piece of software that allows you to turn on
25:44
their phone at any time, the. You to basically eavesdrop
25:46
on them because you're in the pocket.
25:48
And for three hundred dollars a month you
25:51
would actually get customers, sir.
25:52
And the prices actually keep coming down, it's a very,
25:55
very evolved fluid
25:57
marketplace, there's feedback and
25:59
there's no. Though. There are feed that worms
26:01
cool, as was that thief was not really
26:03
does that I didn't do the thief,
26:06
the robbery right absolutely perfectly for
26:08
something you'll see it a. Lot for on freshness
26:10
of credit cards, does you know it's easy
26:12
to say ya hear ten thousand credit card numbers,
26:15
but if their credit card numbers have been out for A?
26:17
While and get declined everybody, you've just
26:19
wasted your money and these people called Rippers
26:21
Eyes and they're ripping you off and
26:23
they will get banned from the form wow so
26:25
it's. Reputation or just like everywhere else, yeah,
26:28
and it's as good as e bay if you feel
26:30
safe doing business on bay there's
26:32
no reason you shouldn't feel safe doing. Business with the
26:34
criminal.
26:35
Now are all of this to me frankly
26:37
felt like to sexy hacker talk until
26:40
a couple of months ago dentists are telling
26:42
us about this one particular site, actually the biggest
26:45
of these kinds of sites is out there, it's cold
26:47
dark code.
26:48
Yeah, the way it has been described by
26:50
law enforcement is sort of an Amazon dot.com
26:52
com for hackers.
26:53
Actually, you're specifically how US Attorney David
26:55
Hicks and describes her in an interview or
26:57
Dark Road is the largest
26:59
English speaking criminal
27:01
cybercrime for him in the world.
27:04
One a, I think most people know silk
27:06
road, and they know, for example, you could get a contract
27:08
hit on of from silk road and drugs
27:10
and guns and everything else, so would it be
27:13
right for me to say that this is sort of silk
27:15
road?
27:15
For hackers yeah when want to draw that direct
27:17
comparison I think it's probably accurate
27:19
would say that all measure of cyber crime
27:22
that you see and watch around.
27:24
the world was in some form or fashion connected
27:26
to
27:28
So we got really interested in this world of the site
27:30
dark coat in the people in it and so
27:32
with Dina we started calling around
27:35
trying to find anyone that would talk and.
27:37
after we'd searching and calling and lawyering
27:39
we sound a guy who agreed to go
27:41
on the record my name is daniel play six
27:44
and i'm and reformed hacker
27:48
The towards we know Dan has never talked about
27:50
this publicly. So how did you get
27:52
involved?
27:52
The dark well, I was one
27:54
of the people who created it. Very
27:58
long time ago. Then. Your
28:00
story begins not in Russia, but in Milwaukee,
28:02
sure we'll let me start with little bit, can't
28:04
small middle class suburb right outside
28:07
of Milwaukee, your brothers and sisters, two
28:09
younger. Brothers and two younger sisters, big
28:11
family to you, have to share rooms with them
28:13
or were you in your own little kingdom, shared
28:16
a room with both my brothers for. A lot of years
28:18
second sort of plays into the story, Disease has
28:21
where he would do to sort of escape
28:23
his go to the basement and play video games,
28:25
so yes. Then the stereotypical
28:27
hacker in his parent's basement, I know know.
28:31
Quite hilarious again, says
28:34
his hacking began innocently enough when would
28:36
monkey with games like Age of Empires
28:38
I'd change the graphics change the
28:40
artificial intelligence the game the way it plays,
28:43
we work to create new maps that type of.
28:45
saying something i enjoyed
28:50
Then slowly, I throw my teenagers
28:52
that developed into something more.
28:57
You are. "The not get along well
28:59
with a lot of my peers and
29:01
in grade in middle school, so I
29:04
spent on" A lot
29:06
more time, you know, on the computer and
29:08
a myself than I did, I'm socially
29:10
at least at that age.
29:12
And he says one day he was in a chatroom
29:14
Internet chat rooms called Game Search
29:17
talking with bunch of the people of video games and
29:19
dumb at some point along the way
29:21
he meets this guy you know this for this particular
29:24
guy was into, you know, botnets
29:27
oh. yes botnets we all try yes
29:29
it is just remind just of what
29:32
what's going on there five meds are you know
29:34
malware viruses installed on computers
29:37
and dumb botnets in our the way
29:39
to centrally control centrally whole lot
29:41
of infected computers desert to
29:43
put this in context for things that exist only
29:45
fastenings joseph men says this whole
29:47
bot net situation started
29:50
with spam one of the easiest
29:52
ways to make money on the internet back
29:54
three two thousand of was
29:56
spam as in my penis extensions
29:59
and i'm in iraq
30:00
Be and all that stuff what happened was
30:02
that the in the Olden days most
30:04
servers, mail servers or acted
30:06
as open relays, meaning the mail people
30:08
wouldn't really pay attention to who was sending was.
30:11
To the spammers with spam with abandoned
30:14
and then spam got to be enough of a problem
30:16
is that the techies of the world decided
30:18
that's it they. started to block
30:20
people like if they found guy who they thought was
30:22
sending too many product emails or whatever
30:25
they would bless his ip address
30:27
so that he couldn't sending more male so
30:29
what's the spammers and their contractors
30:31
then needed to do was to have bunch
30:33
of clean ip addresses And
30:37
send spam from that, so what they did,
30:39
which is totally genius, totally evil, is
30:41
the higher too much programmers to create bunch of
30:43
viruses, disseminated those viruses
30:46
across the Internet people would. accidentally
30:48
clicker open something, get them onto their
30:51
the computer, and then suddenly
30:53
the spammers could not remote control
30:56
our computers. The distance
30:58
I really wanted from maybe just an hour tonight.
31:01
To. Send out there spam because these were clean
31:03
ip addresses, of course, what happened is
31:06
that once the spammers had these bought
31:08
this, they started thinking, "hey, I could do
31:10
something else" With us and the next thing
31:12
that came along with denial of service attacks, you
31:14
can have all of them tried to contact eBay,
31:16
dot.com com at the same time and.
31:18
Knock over eBay this first gentlemen that Iran
31:20
so he had about nuts of a well
31:22
over thousand computers, which,
31:25
you know, at the time was amazing to me, you know. By
31:27
today's standards of thousand for button that,
31:29
as is nothing now, they can get up into the millions
31:31
but I'm back, then it was quite incredible
31:33
to me and because. He says he was in this chat room, this
31:35
guy was there and this guy would get into fights
31:38
with people and anytime he did. Then. Point
31:40
is one thousand computer drone army
31:42
at that any and nephew man I'm going to knock
31:44
your internet offline, there's nothing you can do
31:46
about, you know, for was something and. A game
31:48
he could knock the game server that they were playing
31:51
on offline of stop their games
31:53
things like that, it's like he can take away year's
31:55
ball back in Nineteen. Thirty five,
31:58
that is exactly it takes you to.
32:00
Someone else's ball over the Internet, so this for
32:02
some reason intrigued use yes
32:04
was amazing to me, I'm like the you have control
32:06
the thousand computers wow.
32:09
You know how did you do this, you know, I
32:11
have at the time had never heard of button outside
32:13
and nobody is stuff like, how did you, how
32:16
did you get the software to do this, how did you get it
32:18
onto all these computers? He was quite
32:20
happy to tell you all that.
32:21
Oh, he certainly was this, this particular gentleman
32:23
now had a very large ego and
32:25
ended. See him as bad
32:27
guy.
32:29
Ah, man, to be honest, I think
32:31
at that age I. The
32:33
really. Think about it that
32:35
deeply it's the Internet it's a lot
32:38
harder to quantify,
32:41
right and wrong there I'm in now with me
32:43
as easy to look back then so yeah this wrong
32:45
but it's not like going up to someone and punching them
32:47
in the face there's no. human
32:50
connection there you don't see these people are feel
32:52
these people Then the
32:54
time it was the sheer curiosity. Who?
32:57
Says he asked this pied piper guy to
32:59
send him some with the bought software that made
33:02
the botnet go, and that really intrigued me
33:04
know digging to the source code trying. To understand
33:06
what is the thing doing, how does it work, how does text
33:09
this guy was good kotor like is it
33:11
really good at it was good at? It yet ah
33:14
no, no as out with the
33:16
you know in hindsight now our, you
33:18
know his what his would classify as classify script
33:21
kiddie you know someone. Who are?
33:25
you better off script
33:27
kiddies so script kiddie is
33:29
someone who has just enough
33:31
technical ability to can't
33:33
take some tools and software the other people
33:36
have created and just use them
33:38
Fast. Forward as, Dan
33:41
went the opposite direction of the script kiddies and
33:43
got better and better and things start
33:45
making the to spot nets they could literally
33:47
spy on people as. They were using their computers
33:50
interesting to see all the porn that people are watching that
33:52
have saying. he says
33:54
he found himself in another chatroom that
33:56
was called but talk And
33:58
up later, hackers swat. Bragg.
34:00
Like, hey, look what I did by deceased
34:02
this website, take a look, and he says one day he
34:04
was talking with coder friend of his guy named is there
34:06
to. We were talking and what are we
34:09
set up community where we
34:11
can really so to who gets the joint and
34:13
the went all the script, kiddies and idiots and
34:16
I? Actually chose the name I came up
34:18
with Santa nice lame name of,.
34:21
i should exist or the get a little and i am against
34:23
our code dark code it's dark really
34:25
are k o d c great seemed
34:27
cooler with the case from yes so
34:29
we chose the name and started getting the sights set
34:32
up the rules where it would be invite only see
34:34
had of an invite and each new person would be required
34:36
to demonstrate their skill he's a piece of software
34:38
that created or here's created video of my
34:41
botnet and action and at
34:43
some point some not too long after was created
34:45
it was decided for one reason for another that you
34:47
know hey we got all these for amazon here that's great
34:49
but they also want to be able to
34:52
sell some most of them making so
34:55
Let's. Invite some people who
34:57
would be willing to buy some of the stuff this
34:59
them against the sound like a fairy Sarah, I have
35:02
a burglar to vote, you have door.
35:05
You want to burgle and they are ready
35:07
to that's simplification but yes
35:09
people would post and say I'm.
35:12
looking to buy acts or
35:14
ears this piece of software i created here's all of
35:16
things it does you some screenshots
35:18
of inaction and here's the price could
35:20
be certain have certain botnet software
35:23
it could be buying a button that itself
35:25
you know if you don't want to build when yourself want to buys
35:28
one that somebody else already created and has going
35:30
to me i can get you wanted to hundred
35:32
thousand or twenty thousand computers
35:35
just give me a cheque guess what
35:37
they called them were installs insult
35:39
hey guys i've got installs and their
35:42
ten dollars per one thousand
35:44
Like that there's no,
35:48
this a me sort of surprising to as the when it comes to find
35:50
that says there's this whole rental market it's
35:52
frighteningly affordable yeah it's.
35:55
bargain basis in fact we were talking with one
35:57
reporter till he checks and higgins to
35:59
be exact
36:00
Better. Of Dark Reading Dot. com, which
36:02
is a cyber security new site and,
36:04
she told us you can actually rent bike that
36:06
if you really want it to you could. Rent bot
36:08
net for one hour for about thirty eight dollars
36:10
month and let's face it was, I was twenty yes
36:13
as low as twenty dollars month can. Rent a bot
36:15
net for twenty bucks month, you could it's
36:17
like renting space here you want to use this to go do
36:19
damage somewhere or you wanna make statement. Or
36:22
you have some plan for I do you want to send some spam here,
36:24
you go, you could go online right now
36:26
and probably find somewhere out there on the
36:28
net. Somebody who will sell you access
36:30
to computers for? sense
36:33
of peace and you feel like people's computers like
36:35
your computers my computer and dance as dark
36:37
code got bigger and bigger he began to see
36:40
more of this kind of activity on the site
36:42
like some guy and of a button out of five thousand computers
36:45
another guy would have some software like the ransomware
36:47
software guy within rent the button at guy one
36:50
install his ransomware ransom
36:52
these poor people then move on you know some of
36:54
the people were
36:56
You do some pretty unpleasant things, you know, moving
36:58
more into the can financial
37:00
crimes territory ounces. The
37:03
something that I really never had a desire
37:05
to be involved and.
37:06
It was largely because of that, he says, that in
37:08
two thousand and nine. The decided
37:10
to get out. That
37:12
importantly the next year I got a lovely
37:14
visit from the F B I They,
37:19
promptly earth with it's like
37:21
is kicked down your door type situation, they
37:23
knocked they knocked. sorry what
37:26
was that like pretty terrifying you
37:29
know what's gonna happen to me
37:31
what's gonna happen next and when did happen next
37:34
How much of that I can talk about,
37:36
but I'm did cooperate
37:38
with the government and have cooperated with them
37:40
for the last five plus years
37:42
now was a kick in the buds, you know my parents
37:45
saw. And kicked me out,
37:47
know that kicked me out per turn. This
37:50
to me with rapid move out think,
37:53
that, I've
37:55
been living on my own since San and. i
37:59
became games Employed had a
38:01
few jobs I'm became,
38:03
little bit more and more serious with my
38:06
then girlfriend who is now my wife
38:08
so. i'm you know
38:10
it's given me an opportunity over the last five years to
38:12
really make some serious changes to my life
38:17
Meanwhile, over the same five years, dark coat
38:19
grew into this massive. Cyber.
38:23
Criminals swap meet where
38:25
tens of thousands of stolen social security
38:27
numbers were bought and sold huge database
38:30
that personal information and emails were bought and sold
38:32
malware and software various kinds. Are bought
38:34
and sold and discontinued going
38:36
to the temple rest right up until July
38:39
fifteenth.
38:40
This year, July fifteenth, two thousand fifteen
38:42
today marks a milestone in our efforts
38:44
to bring to justice some of the most significant
38:47
cybercriminals in the world.
38:48
What ended up happening on July sixteenth
38:50
is that the F. B. I actually got me into
38:53
dark home with a number of intelligence
38:55
services from around the world and they had an
38:57
eighteen month investigation in
38:59
which they took down in the end
39:01
and twenty eight.
39:02
People the F B I has effectively
39:05
smash the Hornet's nest and
39:07
we're in the process of rounding up
39:10
and, charging the hornets said his
39:12
The amazing race or they take down more.
39:15
than two dozen people Two weeks later
39:19
Dakota's, up again. papa
39:22
just pop back up
39:31
Then.
39:34
A. Deep gratitude to NPR is Dina Tempo
39:36
Rest and who's reporting really got us going
39:39
on this whole project and props to Kelsey
39:41
Paget pretty surfer segment any males
39:43
who produced A. Second segment thanks also to and
39:45
resolve Michael Shambles gone through
39:47
Omen when Levy Coffee Rotor Kathy
39:49
to don't forget attorney David the car
39:51
and the whole crew at the Microsoft Cyber. Crimes unit
39:54
and t Robert thinking of you worry me
39:56
because you're part of my bought new cause of.
39:59
data They recovered, thanks for listening.
40:02
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