0:00

Brian I just was running straight at me.

0:02

He looks at me and he smiles. Slicks

0:04

the ball with his hand. The ball spins

0:06

in the air. But I was transfixed on

0:09

Brian. I sat back going. That skill level.

0:11

I've never seen that. Join in the obsession.

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0:28

Welcome to episode 44 of the Racing Pod. On

0:30

Off The Ball. With John Duggan and Johnny Ward.

0:32

Remember we're here every week with analysis, race, previews,

0:34

tips, stories, interviews and the crack. The

0:36

first half of the pod each week is free to air. The

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second half is exclusively for members. So be sure to sign up

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by going to offtheball.com/join. And this

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week for members we'll focus on

0:45

Saturday's action at New Market. So

0:47

subscribe now. Johnny, how are you? I believe you're in

0:50

the stole today. I am DJ

0:52

Lee. The first time I'm staying over in the

0:54

stole and back in Kerry for the two day

0:56

meeting next week. But yeah,

0:58

the stole, it's actually the sun is shining

1:00

as you might see. A lot of non-runners

1:02

here today and we've seen a new market

1:04

with the ground change and a lot of

1:07

non-runners. But they're looking forward to the stole

1:09

cracking obviously very unique place as well. Unique

1:11

festival. And the last two days I'll be

1:13

there. And on

1:15

Wednesday, Florian Porter wiped

1:17

the floor with them in the Kerry National. One horse

1:19

race, Johnny. Yeah,

1:22

JD. I mean, I was, I don't know if I've ever

1:24

been as disappointed after a race for not backing a horse.

1:26

Like, and I kind of go into these, kind

1:29

of go into these competitive jumps, handicaps with

1:32

the, with the sort of impression

1:34

that they're difficult to solve. This

1:36

race wasn't difficult to solve. And I put up solitary

1:38

man. He didn't run at all well,

1:40

but you know, if you look at this, Florian Porter, who

1:43

was basically a favorite in his last hurdle run

1:45

to win a grade one, one against handicappers has

1:47

to go left handed at a track that was

1:49

definitely going to suit if you got into a

1:51

rhythm laid out with the race by Gavin Cromwell.

1:54

And I'd know betterness and I was, I was

1:56

really disappointed that they didn't have a best. But

1:58

congratulations to connections. him from

2:00

obviously five grand. And these are the stories that we need

2:02

more of in Jones race. So we're going to talk about

2:04

Chelten, but I don't know what you meant about JD, but

2:06

the race was over at halfway. Once

2:09

he went off in front and wasn't stopping, I

2:11

said, this is done. I had church stone warrior

2:14

back to me each way and he was forced. So I was happy as,

2:16

but no, it was, it was, it was

2:18

one horse race. It was four and a half lengths or

2:20

something. It could be in 400 lengths to be honest. Uh,

2:22

and Ruby Watters was just saying after the race and like

2:24

that, almost the durations, whatever

2:28

he was talking about the ratings that this was a

2:30

grade one stairs hurdle winner against horses that were nowhere

2:32

in his league. Well,

2:34

100% the first four horses in the

2:37

race were kind of grade one horses in some shape

2:39

or form in their day. But Santa here has his

2:41

limitations at the real whack around the

2:43

age. He didn't have a good day, but he's questioned

2:45

stands for what throw him Porter, like Kevin Cromwell, brilliant

2:47

target trainer. They've kept him for the race. And he

2:49

was back. He was like seven or eight to one.

2:51

Like we're not talking about a horse here. The five

2:53

to two favors. Um, he went off what five to

2:55

one or six to one would like in

2:58

hindsight, this was just granted things could have gone

3:00

wrong, but this was the most obvious race and

3:02

the most obvious kind of horse to back in

3:04

a competitive handicap chase that I've seen. And I

3:06

didn't back him because I didn't have this idea

3:08

that I could pick the winner of the race.

3:10

And I, I know the things to do during

3:12

the week, but hopefully I won't make that mistake

3:14

again. Have you been a Johnny Keynes yet? I

3:16

haven't. They're going to make my debut there later

3:18

on. I think JD, um, you know, I've heard

3:21

a lot about it. I don't know if you've

3:23

been there. Never been to the stall in my

3:25

life. So not this year, obviously, maybe next year,

3:27

the Pat Healy, my sort of set. Yeah,

3:29

I'm looking forward to that. And the dog is on as

3:32

well after the stall today. Um, so

3:34

like it's, it's kind of a busy weekend or

3:36

a race. So I'm really looking forward to the

3:38

banter and meeting a few of the local, um,

3:40

journalists, writers and all of that. Okay. Uh, you're,

3:42

we're recording this when you're in the kingdom on

3:44

Friday and there are changes to the chat

3:46

and them race program, as we said, for 2025 Johnny

3:49

after criticism of the festival

3:51

last season. So just to go through them,

3:53

we've got alterations, including the abolition of the

3:56

golden mitter novices chase in place of

3:58

a handicap that was known as the Turner's chase. The

4:00

cross-country chase has turned into a limited

4:02

handicap now. Runners and

4:04

novice handicaps will require more experience maybe

4:07

to prevent big trainers throwing in novices

4:09

and winning. Are these changes designed to

4:11

make Cheltenham more competitive? What

4:13

are your thoughts? Is it just window dressing or is it

4:15

going to actually make a difference? Yeah,

4:19

window dressing are like, you know, trying to repaint

4:21

in the house with a really bad foundation or

4:23

repainted the car that the engine is faulty. And

4:26

like Cheltenham was worrying this year,

4:28

really worrying far too many

4:30

odds on favorites. First of all, forget

4:32

about these stupid changes that they're making, little changes

4:34

to races, which in themselves might have some merit.

4:36

Get rid of the mares races, get rid of

4:38

one or two other races and go back to

4:40

three days and compress the grade one

4:43

action. That's what you do. Go back

4:45

to three days and the four day thing doesn't work anymore.

4:47

If it ever worked, there are far too many races

4:49

for the big trainers to dominate

4:51

in. And like this changes

4:53

to the Novices Amateur riders race. You know, it's

4:55

just they've made so many changes to the race.

4:58

I think Chris Cook has a very good article in

5:00

the race. Yeah, it's just like it's not you're not

5:02

you're not really getting the crux of the issue here.

5:05

Jumps racing in Britain is in a difficult position because

5:08

it's very expensive to have horses in training

5:10

and people are just getting out of having

5:12

jumps horse in Britain for whatever reason. And

5:15

the prize money is not that great over here. And

5:17

jumps racing in Ireland is not a great place because

5:19

a lot of owners are getting out as well because of

5:21

the domination of one or two yards. And ultimately this is

5:23

next to nothing to change that and go back to three

5:25

days, get rid of the mares race, get rid of one

5:27

or two more race and everything will be fine. Well,

5:30

that's never going to happen because of money. So

5:32

it's more profitable to have four days. It's more

5:34

profitable to have 27 races or

5:37

28 when it's fully loaded

5:40

as opposed to 20, which was the best

5:42

thing in the before 2005, you 20 races

5:45

over three days, you really top quality racing to chat

5:47

them. But the horses bolted to excuse the pun. I've

5:49

got a few thoughts in this, Johnny. I feel chat in them

5:51

and I've been for 22 years. I

5:54

wasn't allowed to go in 2021 because

5:56

of the COVID issue, but

5:58

I don't feel it's been the same. since the

6:00

COVID week of 2020. Now

6:03

that's not the fault of the race course.

6:05

Now it just, at the time it was

6:07

caught up in a very worrying, uncertain panic

6:09

situation. I just don't know. I haven't felt

6:11

the same vibe since I've gone back.

6:13

Maybe that's just me personally. Another thing about it, Chatham

6:16

has always been about the Irish versus the English and

6:18

the Irish challenge and Jockey's coming in

6:20

with the tri-colour and small yards and it

6:23

being the underdog like horses from small

6:25

yards like Tom Fodian, Denote going over

6:27

in the 1990s everybody

6:29

being on them and winning or Doran's

6:31

pride or Imperial Call or these horses.

6:34

In the last, I don't

6:36

know, maybe 10 years Ireland's horses have

6:38

dominated Chatham. Of the 27 winners this

6:40

year, 18 were Irish trained. That's two-thirds.

6:43

And then of the 27, a third of them

6:45

were trained by Woody Mullins and

6:48

she got coordinated with Henri de Brahm head and

6:50

it's no fault of theirs that they want to

6:52

win obviously, but Woody reached 100 winners last season

6:54

at Chatham. And this whole idea

6:56

of us being the

6:59

non-favourite against the English has been turned on its

7:01

head and it's now routine that the Irish winners

7:03

because Irish jumps racing is so dominant. So the

7:05

romance has gone out of it. And that's another

7:07

huge part of what Chatham has lost. Everything

7:11

you say there is correct. And I used to

7:13

cheer and the Irish winners like with real abandon

7:15

and there was a bit of patriotism there. And

7:18

now we're kind of just hoping that it's not a

7:20

bloodbath for the British. And the fact that it's which

7:23

you far as to roll about this, the

7:25

fact that if you're an owner of Woody Mullins,

7:27

he can say, well, we try and do our

7:29

best basically to run our horses apart. Chatham shouldn't

7:32

be like that. And it's gotten to the stage

7:34

where Paul Nichols is actually avoiding Chatham because he

7:36

doesn't think he's much of a chance. I think

7:38

some of the British

7:40

trainers need to look at that. It's still Chatham,

7:42

but the whole, the atmosphere was

7:46

related to this year that it was quite

7:48

underwhelming. And like racing in general, so

7:50

a lot of race meetings are struggling in terms of

7:53

the live the live the atmosphere that you had. But

7:55

Chatham for me, this this was a year when they

7:57

really, really needed to do something to fix it. the

8:00

changes that may go nearly far enough for that.

8:02

And obviously, I mean, look at all events in

8:04

the UK and around the world, points are expensive

8:07

but £7.80 for Guinness as well, I don't think

8:09

it's going to necessarily attract that

8:12

many people. That's the other

8:14

thing, JD, like there is a cost to live

8:16

in Christ in Britain. A lot of race-goers, they

8:18

can't afford to go one day

8:20

to Chelsea, not to mine four days, and then

8:22

you're lumping those prices on them. And I kind

8:24

of feel the same about you in relation to

8:27

the pandemic. That Thursday when Sam

8:29

Coe won the first race, that Thursday was a

8:31

very weird experience and hasn't been the same child

8:33

since. Yeah, look, got to give

8:36

them credit for getting it back on the road after the pandemic,

8:38

but it just look, it

8:40

just maybe, maybe child has got too big for itself in

8:42

a way and sometimes you everything has peaks and troughs and

8:44

maybe in the next few years, it'll regain the luster that

8:47

it had. But at the moment, it's a bit of a

8:50

struggling moment, I feel, and there's no easy fix for it.

8:52

And I think a lot of it's to do with the

8:54

fact that Irish horses are so dominant and small yards are

8:56

so dominant in terms of mopping up most

8:58

of the races. Let's look ahead to

9:00

this weekend then, Johnny, the Curra on Saturday, the Goughs

9:02

500 at two o'clock,

9:05

and then you got the Goughs million. Now

9:07

explain this to me because we talk about

9:09

prize money, I'll be looking on

9:12

a Saturday and going Irish prize money, well, it's

9:14

this or it's that, and maybe you might compare

9:16

unfavorably to English prize money. But

9:19

at the Curra on Saturday, the Goughs 500

9:21

for the winner, it gets 245,000 Euro. These are

9:26

all two-year-old horses and

9:28

then the Goughs million, 495,000 Euro. That seems very excessive

9:32

to me, but is there a reason for it? Yeah,

9:35

well, the field sizes are worrying here at JD.

9:37

There's an incentive in this race for you buy

9:39

a horse is obviously the Gough sale that's eligible

9:41

for the race, but then it costs quite a

9:44

bit actually to declare the horse at the final

9:46

stage to run. And a lot of the owners

9:48

this year obviously have opted out because the runners

9:50

are disappointing and like these races are, they're actually

9:52

quite forgettable looking at them. I mean, the Goughs

9:55

million, you've a horse rate of 100 who's going

9:57

to be a hot favorite and a horse is

9:59

Angelo Canyon.