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Oprah Winfrey. Welcome to Super

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Soul Conversations, the podcast. I

1:01

believe that one of the most valuable gifts you can give

1:03

yourself is time.

1:06

Taking time to be more

1:08

fully present. Your journey

1:11

to become more inspired and connected

1:13

to the deeper world around us

1:16

starts right now. I

1:19

really do find it hard to believe that just

1:21

three months after launching my talk show

1:23

in 1986, there I was

1:26

talking to Shirley Maclean on

1:28

national daytime television about

1:31

spirituality. That kind of

1:33

material, even more so than today, was

1:35

really considered out there. Not

1:37

your typical talk show kind of subject. I

1:40

invited her to the show because I

1:42

had read and loved her

1:44

memoir Out on a Limb while filming

1:46

The Color Purple. The international

1:49

bestseller detail Shirley's lifelong

1:51

spiritual quest and

1:53

reading her story was life

1:55

changing for me. In fact,

1:57

her writings helped inspire her.

2:00

my own spiritual awakening. Shirley

2:03

has always felt a keen connection to

2:05

the world beyond. Over the

2:07

course of her remarkable career, Shirley has appeared

2:09

in more than 60 movies,

2:11

and she's been nominated for more than

2:13

100 various awards. She

2:16

has won an Emmy, seven Golden

2:19

Globes, and of course, who could forget

2:21

her Oscar-winning performance as Aurora

2:23

Greenway in terms of endearment.

2:26

Today, on the cusp of 80, she's

2:28

as outspoken, opinionated, and sharp as

2:31

ever. Never one to accept the

2:33

status quo. Her latest book, her

2:35

13th, by the way, is appropriately

2:37

titled What If? Isn't

2:40

it wonderful to be 79 and

2:44

still so curious about

2:46

life? I'm

2:48

like a child. I

2:50

need to know much more

2:53

sophisticated questions, of course, but I

2:55

would say that's the reason for being alive,

2:57

frankly. Being able to ask

3:00

the question. To have the freedom of curiosity

3:02

without being judged or told, oh,

3:04

don't do that, don't you think about it.

3:07

Why not? If

3:09

you've lived a long and you're still walking

3:11

upright, you have the

3:13

right. And you ask

3:16

everything from what if there really is reincarnation

3:18

to what if sex isn't meant to

3:20

be monogamous? Well,

3:22

I got over that a long time ago. So

3:26

what happened that you

3:28

came up with this new idea for what

3:31

if a lifetime of questions

3:33

and speculations and reasonable guesses?

3:35

Now that it's

3:37

out and everything, I think

3:39

I had come

3:41

to the point where

3:44

I would let my humorous imagination run away. Then

3:47

I sat down and basically channeled it, without

3:50

filters. When you first

3:52

sat down to write Out on a Limb, did you

3:54

think you were taking a risk? You

3:57

didn't think this either. You didn't think this. I don't

3:59

know. That's how naive I can be and why

4:01

it works for me. I don't

4:03

think, I don't even know what risks are.

4:06

A risk to me is walking up.

4:08

The risk is that people thinking, wow, she's

4:11

out there. That's not a risk to me.

4:13

But then I'm in show business and the

4:16

world is show business. Do you, yes I

4:18

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you knew what, at 10 that you were a

5:40

mystic? Yeah, how did you know?

5:44

Well, I didn't know that that meant mystic,

5:46

but for Christmas that year, I asked for

5:48

a cross and

5:51

a telescope. And

5:53

my parents said, what is this? I said, I don't know,

5:55

but that's what I want. And I

5:57

would lie out on the back lawn. I

5:59

wasn't looking. through my telescope knowing

6:01

that there were other, let's

6:04

say, off-world civilizations

6:07

up there. Yeah. When

6:09

you looked through the telescope, do you remember having the

6:11

sense of, out

6:14

there somewhere is where

6:16

I come from or? Yes. Or

6:19

something like that. Or

6:21

have been there, would

6:23

like to go back? Yes. And

6:26

you know, what is the difference between that

6:28

and the mystery of religion? Did

6:32

you grow up believing in a God?

6:37

No. That was never imposed on me from my

6:39

parents. But then, you know, they were, dad

6:42

was an intellectual who

6:44

mastered in psychology and philosophy at

6:46

Johns Hopkins. So that kind of

6:48

religious stuff was not something they

6:51

thought I should be imbued

6:54

with. You've

6:57

written, I'm a dancer who loves to think.

7:00

What do you most love thinking about? Who

7:03

we are, where we came from, where

7:05

we're going, how did it all happen?

7:08

Yeah, that's my fun. I

7:11

consider it really fun. Yeah.

7:14

And whenever I'm with a scientist

7:16

or a very kind of so-called

7:18

left-brained intellectual person, that's what

7:21

I love being

7:23

with at dinner. And

7:26

then I, of course, I have to

7:28

be fairly well-read in like

7:30

Genesis and the Bible. The Bible is

7:32

the book. It's right there. It's written

7:34

all about the

7:37

otherness of otherworldly truth. I mean,

7:39

that's the truth as

7:41

I see it. What is our purpose?

7:45

Why are we here? So

7:48

religion is called into question now and a lot

7:50

of people say, but

7:53

then what is the purpose? What

7:55

is the purpose of human experience? I

7:57

think curiosity. That's

8:00

what saved me. What do

8:02

you now know for sure

8:04

about our humans,

8:08

our place in the universe? I

8:11

am sure we're not alone. But

8:15

you've been sure of that for a pretty long time. So

8:18

you've spoken publicly about reincarnation

8:21

in past lives forever and

8:23

your belief that no one ever-

8:25

Literally forever. For really, probably many

8:28

lifetimes. No one ever really dies.

8:30

When did you start to know

8:32

that? I

8:35

think when I first started having past

8:37

life recall. And

8:42

then of course I got into the scientific

8:44

study of it and did many regressions. What

8:47

was so fascinating was in the

8:49

regressions of the past lives that I

8:52

have experienced, I realized the

8:54

people who showed up in those

8:56

experiences were also in my life

8:58

today. Really? Yeah. And

9:01

that became very educational. Oh

9:04

that's why they're acting like that. Look what I did

9:06

to them then. That's when I

9:08

understood the laws of karma. It's

9:11

an inspiration to try to figure out what's going

9:14

on here. I look at

9:16

it as

9:18

an adventure in understanding the science

9:21

of the spirit. Yeah. That's

9:23

what I'm interested in now, in

9:25

every way. How do you feel about

9:28

where we are now? I

9:30

think we're in big trouble. How

9:32

so? Tell me. I

9:34

think we don't know or have any comprehension

9:36

of what we're doing to nature. Now those

9:39

who are scientists and the Algores of the world

9:41

and stuff, yes of course. But

9:43

what's happened to the rest of us? We're

9:46

so materialistic. Our values,

9:48

that's our religion, is materialism.

9:51

So we've become addicted to the materialism and

9:53

have no sensibility of what

9:56

is that doing to the

9:58

very sustenance of our lives. which

10:01

is nature. And everybody knows

10:03

we've got to fix it. And

10:05

yet we're all leaving it up to somebody else

10:07

to fix. Yes. Back

10:11

in the day when Hollywood was

10:13

Hollywood... The glory days. The glory

10:15

days. The

10:17

Rat Pack days. The Rat Pack and you. Yeah.

10:22

I look at that now with real nostalgia. Oh,

10:24

yeah. I'm... Ah.

10:27

I've thought a lot about that because I miss

10:29

it. You do? But what I miss,

10:31

I realize now, is the

10:34

spontaneity and not giving a

10:36

damn that those guys were

10:38

imbued the talent with. So

10:40

they didn't care and they always were

10:43

very well dressed, made certain that there

10:45

were hats and the ties and et

10:47

cetera. So they basically

10:49

knew they were on the

10:52

whole time. Mm-hmm. And

10:54

nobody really protected them. What

10:57

protected them was their spontaneity. And

10:59

they didn't care what other

11:02

people thought. Of course, there was this mystery

11:04

behind them anyway. You don't have the Rat

11:06

Pack. Yeah. Well, Dean and

11:08

Frank and Sammy and all of them.

11:11

Were you happy during those days? Did

11:13

you realize they were the glory days? No.

11:17

When you were in those days, did you realize they were the glory days? No.

11:20

God, I look back on that now and I say, this

11:23

was it. This

11:25

is what everybody wishes they had back.

11:28

Yeah. And I don't know if Dean and Frank

11:30

and the rest of them realized it because they

11:33

were much older and much

11:35

more accustomed to this kind of

11:37

attention and celebrity. And I wasn't.

11:39

I mean, I met them when I was 22 or

11:42

something and it all happened

11:44

to me very fast. So that was

11:46

the natural way of things. I

11:50

look back on why didn't you

11:52

realize if I

11:54

had realized I

11:57

might have become

11:59

a. different person. My

12:03

saving grace has been my naivete.

12:07

And now as I'm older, I look

12:10

back and I'm starting

12:12

to evaluate what

12:14

does memory mean.

12:17

What are the component parts of

12:19

memory in relation to how

12:22

you do comprehend the past? Why

12:24

am I remembering this and not

12:26

that? And

12:28

what does it all mean now? I

12:30

mean, you can look back and say, wow, those

12:33

are the glory days. Those were

12:35

the glory days. Not just because

12:37

the world has had not seen

12:39

stars before like that, nor

12:42

will ever again, because the era that we now

12:44

live in was instantaneous,

12:47

everything including Instagram. And no mystery.

12:49

No mystery. So there can never

12:52

be a star like that again

12:54

in this culture. In

12:56

2012, the American Film

12:58

Institute recognized Shirley's contributions to

13:00

our culture with their highest

13:02

honor, the AFI Life Achievement

13:04

Award. This annual event

13:07

celebrates masters of film, artists whose

13:09

accomplishments have elevated American cinema. Shirley's

13:12

award ceremony was truly the night of

13:14

a thousand stars as friends both old

13:16

and new sang her praises. Longtime pals

13:19

like Jack Nicholson and Meryl Streep, as

13:21

well as new friends like Julia Roberts

13:23

and Jennifer Aniston, all paying tribute to

13:25

Shirley's six amazing decades in

13:27

film. So tell me about the

13:30

AFI experience. Well, you

13:32

know, a couple of my buddies said, oh my God, it's

13:34

not going to your own funeral. You won't like it. It's

13:37

very interesting to go through it.

13:39

And I was surprised that I

13:43

enjoyed it. I thought they

13:45

didn't like me. And then they are there

13:47

saying all these wonderful things. So

13:50

you go through that examination of your

13:53

past and your opinion

13:55

of yourself. That's really what goes

13:57

on. And I was rather

13:59

surprised. I opinion myself.

14:01

I wasn't sure that would

14:03

happen. I know I

14:05

had a good time. You had a good time. I had

14:07

a good time. When others,

14:10

never mind who, had said, going

14:14

to your own funeral, you sure you want to do that? And

14:17

you know that sense when I walked up the stairs at

14:19

the end, he was supposed

14:21

to go on the stage and say stuff. And

14:25

when Jack put his hand out and helped

14:27

me up the stairs, it

14:31

was a moment of, God, I really am

14:34

getting old. I adore this

14:36

man. And when you have that

14:38

kind of onscreen personality, which you

14:40

could say is spiritual, that's

14:42

a really spiritual mix, me

14:46

and Jack Nicholson. So

14:48

then there was the Kennedy awards, the Kennedy Center

14:50

awards, where you say that really was not

14:52

an award for

14:56

not even lifetime achievement, not even for acting,

14:58

but really for life well-lived. Yeah, that's

15:00

what I felt about it. I think

15:02

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