Episode Transcript
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2:00
Times bestselling author Gretchen Rubin
2:02
about how we can bring
2:04
ourselves a deep lasting
2:07
joy. I am so
2:09
excited to have I'm happy. I'm
2:12
not just excited I am happy excellent to have
2:14
to have you here and I'm very happy to
2:16
be here. Well, thank you because
2:18
you are the founder of the happiness project was
2:21
a perfect name for this
2:23
book and a perfect name for what you did. And
2:26
I'm excited for and happy for the
2:28
information I know you're going to offer
2:31
people today. So people are going to
2:33
now want to do their own happiness
2:35
project when I finished I wanted to
2:37
do my own happiness project because we
2:40
have the power in our lives right now
2:42
to be happier than we are absolutely
2:44
and what I'm hoping happens
2:47
today is after our
2:50
conversation that people actually stop and
2:52
think about your life because you're
2:55
so in the doing doing yes
2:57
doing doing of it. So
2:59
I'm going to start where you started in the book. I
3:01
love this moment paint the picture for us where
3:04
you're on the bus yet and you're
3:06
looking through the window, yes, and you
3:08
see a woman with the umbrella and that you describe
3:10
it. So it's stuck in a city
3:12
bus in the pouring rain and I didn't have anything
3:14
to distract myself with you know so often you just
3:17
lost in something and so I looked out the
3:19
window and there was a woman with a stroller in
3:21
a cell phone and umbrella, you know kind of frantically
3:23
trying to cross the street. And
3:25
I looked at her and I thought you know that's
3:27
me that's my life, I'm just
3:30
doing a million things all at once barely paying
3:33
attention as I'm crossing the street. And
3:35
as I was sitting there on the bus, I had one of those rare
3:38
opportunities for reflection when you really step
3:40
back and think about your life. And
3:44
I thought what do I want from
3:46
life anyway. I thought well, I
3:49
want to be happy. But
3:51
I realized I didn't spend any time thinking about
3:53
whether I was happy or how
3:55
I could be happier because I was so
3:57
busy managing the stroller this cell phone umbrella.
3:59
I wasn't taking the time to think about what
4:02
was missing, what I could add, how I could really
4:04
be happier. And I thought I
4:06
should have a happiness project. And
4:08
it came to me like that. Wow. You
4:11
know what I love about that moment is
4:13
because everybody has had that moment. Yes. So
4:16
the idea that comes across over
4:18
and over again in the happiness
4:20
project is you weren't unhappy. Yeah.
4:23
You weren't unhappy. No, I was perfect. I
4:25
was pretty happy. I had all the elements of a
4:27
happy life. And that was one of the key things
4:29
that I wanted to work on in a happiness project
4:31
was I felt like I'm taking this for granted. I
4:33
have all everything I need
4:35
already. And yet I'm
4:38
not paying attention. I'm getting
4:40
distracted by minor annoyances and
4:42
grievances. And I don't appreciate
4:44
my ordinary day. I'm not thankful enough for
4:46
it. I'm not paying enough attention to
4:49
what's happening to me right here, right now. My
4:51
ordinary day is so precious. And yet
4:53
I wasn't paying any attention to it. And
4:56
so over the years, many,
4:59
many times on The Oprah Show and almost
5:02
every day after the show, I spent 40 minutes
5:05
to an hour with the audience who'd come from
5:07
all over the country. And
5:09
I would always start out by asking this question
5:11
about what makes you happy or what do you
5:13
really want in your life. And
5:16
everybody would always say, I want
5:18
to be happy. And then when I would
5:20
say, what does that look like, people
5:23
couldn't answer the question. Did you know the
5:25
answer to that question? No.
5:27
But I mean, that's the absolutely key thing. Because
5:29
if you don't pay attention to it, you don't
5:31
see the opportunities. I mean, what I found for
5:33
myself is when I really sat down and thought,
5:36
what would it look like if my life were
5:38
happier? If I could
5:40
eliminate guilt, boredom, resentment, anger, if I
5:42
could have more fun, more engagement, more
5:44
friends, more love, more tenderness, like how
5:47
would I go about it? But what
5:50
was really important was to translate
5:52
it into specific actions. Because
5:54
you're right, when you just have a free-floating idea
5:57
like, I really want to be less stressed out.
6:00
make that happen it's like it's not concrete
6:02
enough I think part of it is I
6:04
have a very concrete mind, I need specific
6:06
things to work on and so
6:08
when you think about like your question what
6:10
would happen like look like you sort of
6:12
have to really sit down and think it's
6:14
through like right what's what's the stuff that
6:16
you could do. And that's
6:18
what the happiness project exact so you started out
6:20
with a few simple rules. Your
6:24
own commandments. Okay, I
6:26
love this big action. Yes, that's the most
6:28
important one by far but everybody has to
6:31
substitute their own name okay, yeah, you can't
6:33
be Gretchen yeah, but it's this idea that
6:36
and it's mysterious because you think well the easiest thing
6:38
in the world is to be yourself you just hang
6:40
out with yourself all day, yeah, but really like in
6:42
the morning thought about this more of you like it's
6:45
the great challenge of our lives as people are living
6:47
their life there other people for the French of the
6:49
spouse is for their mother for the
6:51
other women in school, the way they wish
6:53
they were fantasy. Yeah, and I realize like
6:55
this the first thing the only way you
6:57
can build a happy life is you know
6:59
from a foundation of my own nature, my
7:02
own values my own interest but what we're
7:04
like but there was a lot of ways
7:06
that I was sort of pretending to be
7:08
different from the way I was like music
7:10
like I wish I love music. Other
7:12
people love music I get why people love music.
7:15
I don't really love music so much and I had
7:17
this fantasy that I could make myself love music and
7:20
then I'd be a better person and if I only
7:22
studied harder. But then when I gave
7:24
up the fantasy of this other Gretchen who love
7:26
music that I have more time for the things
7:28
I like what really is
7:32
your life. Yes, it's a this big
7:34
Gretchen and that really
7:36
being almost like it
7:38
almost covers everything yeah,
7:40
but isn't that the number one
7:43
spiritual law to
7:45
be yourself to that I don't self be true
7:47
and isn't that really and every every
7:50
tradition tradition religion. Words,
7:54
yes and yet and it seems
7:56
like it would be so obvious and clear and
7:58
yet it's just it's the constant. score
10:00
keeping, I'll say to myself, no calculation. No
10:02
calculation. That's not what I want for myself. You
10:04
know, I want to expect myself to behave better.
10:06
And there is only love. Oh,
10:08
a friend of mine went to work for a
10:10
very difficult boss and she just realized she couldn't work
10:13
for this guy if she let
10:15
him get under her skin. So she just said, there's
10:17
only love. There's only love. And she would
10:20
not allow herself to think, to go
10:22
into a negative, or gossip about him beyond his back,
10:24
or get worked up about him. Because one of the
10:26
things that you talk about is how
10:28
damaging gossip is. And
10:31
we live in a gossip culture. We do. You
10:34
know why it is? It's because everything's energetic. And
10:36
the energy of gossip that you're
10:38
putting out is automatically already coming
10:40
back to you. And that energy out creates
10:43
a negative space for yourself. Wasn't that
10:45
the truth? Yes, and there's also this other thing
10:47
that happens, which is called spontaneous trait transfer, which
10:49
is whatever you say about other people sort of
10:51
sticks to you. So if you say
10:53
about someone like, oh, well, you know, she's
10:56
such a loser, you're gonna
10:58
get associated with that term. So you're hurting yourself
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take the time to savor the morning with...
18:00
you're supposed to do? Well, he wanted to be
18:02
a good son. And so in one way it
18:04
was making him happy because he was doing, he
18:07
was being a good son even if his father
18:09
had not been a good father. And that's what he wanted to
18:11
expect from himself. So in a way it made him happy. Sometimes
18:14
people act like happiness is always like gonna send us
18:16
skipping down the street. It doesn't always work out that
18:18
way. So you have to remember, well, sometimes it doesn't.
18:21
Or when you're doing something new and challenging, it can
18:23
be very, like it can make you feel really bad
18:25
and insecure and defensive. But then in the end you're
18:28
glad you did it. So what you
18:30
do every day matters more than what you
18:32
do once in a while. This
18:34
is very comforting with, especially getting into habits. Because
18:36
it's like if you're healthy most days, that day
18:38
that you screw up, it's gonna be okay. Yeah.
18:41
And so you wrote a book called Happier at Home.
18:44
Oh, I love Happier at Home. Yes. Happier
18:46
at Home. Yes. That's
18:48
when I decided to go really deeply into the
18:50
idea of home because it seemed to me it's
18:52
one of the few universals, almost everybody has an idea
18:54
of home tied to happiness. If you're
18:57
not happy at home, it's hard to be happy. Because
19:00
one of the things you explored so much in that
19:02
book is the idea of clearing clutter. Yes.
19:05
How clutter is directly connected to
19:08
your experience of happiness and gratification.
19:10
To kind of an uncanny degree because you'd say
19:12
like, oh, the fact that you have a messy
19:14
desk doesn't mean,
19:17
like it seems trivial in the context of
19:19
a happy life. And yet for most people
19:21
it seems that outer order contributes to inner
19:23
calm. And that if you make
19:25
your bed in the morning, you're just gonna feel
19:27
calmer and more, both calmer and more
19:30
energetic all day long. I
19:32
don't... Oh my goodness. I mean,
19:34
I couldn't sleep in an unmade bed. Even if the bed
19:36
had been left unmade, I would have to make it before
19:38
I got in it. Yes.
19:40
So you realized that your
19:43
craving for simplicity was
19:47
also bringing you a sense of happiness. Yeah.
19:51
I mean, it's funny because I realize
19:53
that some people have more of an
19:55
affinity for simplicity and some for abundance.
19:57
And I realize from what I did that
19:59
I have... I really love simplicity.
20:02
But that doesn't mean just throwing everything away.
20:04
It means really carefully calling through so that
20:06
I have only the things that I
20:09
need, that I use, that I love. Because that's the
20:11
way you say we can be more engaged with our possessions. Yes,
20:13
is to get rid of all the junk. But
20:15
I have one, but when I was looking at
20:17
all the differences in how people form habits, one
20:20
of the things I noticed is some people just
20:22
love to have a lot of abundance. They like
20:24
lots of choices. They like collections. They like a
20:26
lot of visual stimulation. And to me, that's
20:28
like, Ooh, don't you want to get rid of all that? Like
20:31
my younger daughter has collections all over the place.
20:33
And I'm like, don't you want to get some
20:35
clear surfaces? But for her, each one is meaningful.
20:38
And so we have different senses of what
20:40
we want. But if you know what suits
20:42
you, then you can create the
20:44
environment that's right. I just realized recently,
20:48
I'm living in California, where all these years I've lived in
20:51
Chicago. And I was
20:54
standing in my closet, and
20:56
I realized my closet no longer
20:58
makes me happy. Oh, you
21:00
think a lot of people would back you up
21:03
on that. My closet doesn't make me happy because
21:05
my closet no longer serves the way
21:07
I live. So it doesn't have
21:09
anything to do with me, but I keep
21:11
holding on to these dresses or this, da,
21:13
da, da, this one. Heavy coat. Heavy coat,
21:15
because I think, well, one day you never
21:17
know, I might be cold. Or I love
21:19
this. I love this. You spent too much on that.
21:22
Yes, and so to be able to
21:24
start now, pulling out that closet and
21:26
reorganizing that closet, and only having things
21:28
in the closet that I love, which
21:31
I know you did, too for a
21:33
year, just having the things in
21:36
your immediate environment that
21:39
bring you joy or make you happy. That's
21:41
a big, big thing. No, and
21:43
I think we overlook the kind
21:46
of spiritual dimension of material
21:48
objects. If you don't love it, it has
21:50
no spiritual value. Yes, I mean, there are
21:52
things you don't use, but you do love them anyway, and
21:54
so they have a place in your home, because you just
21:56
love them. Yes, there was a moment, I recall, in
21:58
the book, where you were... passing a shelf
22:01
and there was your daughter's little macaroni
22:03
drawing or something on that and and
22:06
and just looking at that
22:08
little macaroni drawing yes, I think was macaroni
22:10
yes, yeah, yes, macaroni and cotton balls, yes
22:12
macaroni and cotton balls brought you a sense
22:14
of pleasure and happiness so that's a that's
22:17
a prized object right for you right value.
22:19
And it's because I think when you're in
22:21
a place with that's full of things like
22:23
that it's not like they're alive that they
22:25
kind of have like a benevolent presence
22:27
like you have to feel rich but then when
22:30
it's tough that like things you've never used you
22:32
know like that kitchen gadget that you've never used
22:34
just kind of makes you feel guilty to like
22:36
just let it go and it will live a
22:38
long and happy life with someone else who will
22:41
treasure it and then you'll have
22:43
more space on your shelves and more space in
22:45
your conscience because the stuff kind of ways is
22:47
down isn't amazing how the happiness that you got
22:49
from just cleaning out your closet. It's
22:52
cleaning out of it's on candy and then people
22:54
blog you about the clean my medicine cabinet and
22:56
I feel like a new human being. Yeah, no
22:58
it's it's a friend of mine said I finally
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and show. So there's also you write
24:01
about psychic clutter. Yes, oh my
24:03
gosh. The to-do list,
24:05
the undone things, the projects,
24:07
the unfinished projects. One
24:10
of the things I did to clear that
24:12
psychic clutter is every week now I have
24:14
an hour called Power Hour, where I do
24:16
a bunch of tasks that
24:18
I've been procrastinating
24:20
maybe months, years, the
24:23
light bulb, the shredder, get a
24:25
new desk chair, figure
24:28
out where I lost my passport, all
24:30
that stuff that just keeps getting shoved
24:33
down the list. And so it's just clogging up my
24:35
mind. I keep thinking, oh, I
24:37
should do that. Oh, I don't want to do that.
24:39
Oh, I'll do that tomorrow. Power Hour, march through that
24:41
list. Eventually everything gets done. And
24:44
it's so interesting because one
24:46
of the things you write about is the fact
24:48
that there's so much research done on
24:50
unhappiness. And most of it does not
24:52
include any kind of reference to how
24:54
decluttering can change your life. Yeah. But
24:57
yet popular culture is constantly
24:59
talking about the problem of clutter and how to
25:01
organize it. And so it's not that we're not
25:04
aware of it because people clearly feel it very
25:06
much. But it isn't a subject of much research,
25:08
which surprises me. I think that there should be
25:10
research on that. But order creates
25:13
serenity. Yes. What do you
25:15
think you really gained from the Happiness Project? It's
25:17
funny because on the one hand, someone would
25:20
say, well, did you fundamentally change? Well, I
25:22
didn't fundamentally change. I'm still Gretchen. I'm still
25:24
the same person I was. But
25:26
what I gained was that my experience of
25:28
my life is different. I
25:32
have less guilt and less anger and less boredom and less
25:34
respect. Because you worked on it. Because I worked on it.
25:36
And I have more fun and more friends and more
25:39
tenderness because I worked on it. And
25:42
so I feel like although I'm the same,
25:46
my experience of my life is
25:48
so much richer. And also, one of
25:51
the sad truths, and I know you've talked about this,
25:53
is the only person that we can change is
25:55
ourselves. And that's very frustrating. Because do you think,
25:57
well, I'd be so happy. Other people behave properly.
26:00
I tell you what to do. But
26:02
what I found is that when I changed, then
26:05
relationships changed. And
26:08
when I changed, the atmosphere around me changed.
26:10
Yeah. Because you asked your husband at the
26:12
end of the year had he gotten happier
26:14
or how he had been affected by it. And
26:17
initially, he said no, right? Right.
26:19
He said no. But now he absolutely
26:21
said, I mean, it's clear. It's completely all these
26:23
things. But he had changed in ways he didn't
26:26
even know he was changing. Absolutely. You're saying
26:28
he was more willing to? Yes. Do
26:30
things around the house without you even asking?
26:32
He now answers my emails, which doesn't sound
26:34
like a big thing. But it represents major
26:37
progress. Because yes, it's like
26:39
when I changed, when I was more, when
26:41
I stopped keeping score, he stopped
26:43
keeping score. And when I was more patient
26:46
and thoughtful and lighthearted, then he lightened up
26:48
too. And so when I was behaving myself
26:50
better and living
26:53
up to what I wanted to be more, then
26:56
I think it helped the people around me kind of raise
26:58
up too. When you became better than
27:00
before. Yes. Yes. And you became better
27:03
than before. Better than before. Better than
27:05
before. My motto, yes, better than before.
27:07
Not perfection. Yeah. Better than before. That's
27:09
good enough. Gretchen's life motto
27:11
is also the subject of her
27:13
latest book, Better Than Before,
27:16
Mastering the Habits of Our Everyday Lives.
27:19
She has fascinating insight on how
27:21
our daily habits directly impact our
27:23
happiness. Makes sense to me. And
27:26
how do we get to be better than before, Gretchen?
27:30
Well, one important tool in our
27:32
toolbox, I would say, is
27:34
habits. That if we work on our
27:36
habits, which is about 40% of
27:39
everyday life, research shows, then we can
27:41
really direct our lives in ways that
27:43
are going to make us happier, healthier,
27:45
and more productive. By mindfully choosing
27:47
our habits, we
27:49
harness the power of mindlessness as
27:52
a sweeping force for serenity, energy,
27:56
and growth. Yes.
27:59
Because You know, habits are mindless
28:01
in that they happen automatically, but
28:03
that's their strength. You know, before
28:05
I was a regular exerciser, I
28:07
would just exhaust myself. Today,
28:09
tomorrow, should I go? It's too cold. My
28:11
foot hurts. It's raining. And
28:13
I would just exhaust myself debating. But
28:15
now that I just go, I've
28:18
mindfully made the choice to exercise, so
28:20
it just happens. So when you decided
28:22
to do better
28:25
than before, when you decided to step,
28:28
take the happiness project to yet another
28:31
level, did you sense that
28:33
you had then reached a point where
28:35
you could be consistently happy? Could
28:38
you be consistently happy? You
28:40
know, that's an interesting question, because I didn't worry
28:42
about that, because I feel like I want to
28:44
be as happy as I can be under the
28:46
circumstances, but I didn't expect
28:48
myself to be consistently happy, like, all
28:51
the time. Did your base-level happiness change it?
28:53
Because some people are just happier than others.
28:56
Yes. Tiggers and Ewers. Yes. Yes.
29:00
Like my friend, Gail, dear God in
29:02
heaven, one of the happiest people
29:04
I've ever known, consistently happy. Right.
29:06
Well, and about 50%, they
29:08
think is genetically determined. So that's just, you're
29:11
hardwired that way. And then about 10 to
29:13
20% is lay circumstances. So
29:15
that's things like age and health and
29:19
occupation. And
29:21
then the rest really is where our own
29:23
thoughts and actions come in. So you're right,
29:25
we all have our, like, where we're set.
29:28
But then we can push ourselves up to the
29:30
top of that range or push ourselves down to
29:33
the bottom of that range on our conscious thoughts
29:35
and actions. So, yeah, maybe one person's an Ewher
29:37
and one person's a Tigger, so their range would
29:39
be different, but we can all do the best
29:41
with what we have. Because I think, because
29:44
you're right, you're not gonna put
29:46
somebody in a completely different part of
29:48
the... That's right. So did you change
29:50
your baseline happiness level or did your
29:52
baseline stay the same and just got
29:54
enhanced? I think my baseline stayed the same.
29:56
I think my range, I took a test on a 1
29:58
to 10 scale and I was... I think my range is like
30:01
six to nine. I'm
30:03
not a 10 person, but I think I'm a six time. That's
30:06
a good place to be. And I think that instead of
30:08
being around seven most of the time,
30:10
I'm around eight or nine most of the time because of my
30:12
conscious thoughts and actions, because I've done so much
30:14
to get rid of the things that
30:16
dragged me down and to add the things that really lift me
30:18
up. So if
30:20
somebody was going to attempt the idea of being
30:23
better than before, I know they should read the
30:25
books first. But
30:27
fundamentally, fundamentally, what do you
30:30
think is the shift that needs to happen? I
30:33
think when it comes to firming habits, I mean, in
30:35
respect to what we were talking about with happiness, I
30:37
think that the critical first step
30:40
is to think about ourselves.
30:43
What is true for us? Can we each be happier?
30:45
I think we can, but I think what
30:47
we would do to do that is different.
30:50
It's different. Okay, that's the thing.
30:52
It's very different. And so you can't, I
30:54
can't say, oh, it worked for Oprah, so it'll work for me. But wouldn't
30:56
you say that there are some things that
30:59
do work, because constantly
31:02
on Super Soul Sunday, I'm
31:04
reminded by everybody who sits in this chair in one
31:07
form or another about the practice
31:09
of mindfulness. Oh, yes. I
31:11
think being mindful in
31:14
whatever you're doing, which to me means being fully present,
31:17
being fully engaged, being connected, lifts
31:21
your ability to be happy in any given
31:23
situation. That is absolutely true. Now, that's a
31:25
general overall. Yes, right.
31:28
That's almost like a sort of a state of mind, which is
31:30
are you engaged in whatever is happening? Are
31:33
you even experiencing the experience of what's happening? And
31:37
that's whether it's washing dishes or skipping through the
31:39
grass, right? And
31:42
it's interesting because I think habits have an
31:44
unusual, they're sort of in this funny place there,
31:46
because on the one hand you want to shape
31:48
them mindfully. But it is true that part
31:50
of their power comes from the fact that
31:53
you're not making decisions, you're not using
31:55
self-control. So better than
31:57
before you talk about this. And
32:00
you say that when we change our habits,
32:02
listen to me, Super Solars, we
32:04
change our lives. We
32:07
can use decision-making to choose the habits
32:09
we want to form. We
32:11
can use willpower to get the
32:13
habits started. I
32:15
love that because there's a difference, you know? Then,
32:18
and this is the best part,
32:20
we can allow the extraordinary power
32:22
of habit to take over. We
32:24
take our hands off the wheel of decision,
32:27
our foot off the gas of
32:29
willpower, and rely on the
32:31
cruise control of habits. That's the
32:33
promise of habit. And we all
32:36
have our own habits. We all have a habit of bathing, I
32:38
hope. Or showering, I
32:40
hope. Brushing our teeth, I hope. And that's
32:42
what happens when you make something a habit,
32:44
you take your foot off the gas of
32:47
willpower. So you don't need willpower to brush your
32:49
teeth. Right, you don't decide.
32:51
It's not agony. Because
32:53
a lot of times people say to me, well, I really want
32:55
to make more healthy choices in my day. And
32:58
I think, no, you don't want to make a lot of
33:00
healthy choices. Because every time you choose, you can choose wrong.
33:02
You want to make a healthy choice and then stick to
33:04
it. So it's like, I'm going
33:06
to choose to bring my lunch to work every day. Every
33:09
morning I don't decide anew. That's my habit.
33:11
I don't have to decide. I don't have
33:13
to use willpower because it's done. OK, and
33:15
that's why you call it better than before,
33:17
mastering the habits of our
33:20
everyday lives. And so
33:22
it first comes with a sense of, as does everything,
33:24
a sense of self-awareness
33:27
about what would it take to make
33:29
your life happier. Tweet, tweet.
33:32
So I thought it was interesting how
33:34
you mentioned that. And
33:37
this is, I think, for everybody who
33:40
has any level of awareness. You're
33:42
happier if the clothes aren't all
33:44
over the floor in your bedroom. You
33:46
just are, you don't even know how
33:49
much happier that makes you to walk
33:51
into a room, into your bedroom, where
33:53
the clothes are put away. Yes. But
33:55
you used to be the kind of person who would put the
33:57
clothes away and then want your husband to say, oh, you're
33:59
better. You put the clothes away. Right. Yes. No,
34:02
I'm a gold star junkie. I constantly
34:04
want praise and appreciation. I
34:06
saw myself in that story of yourself.
34:08
I thought, oh, gee, so am I.
34:11
Oh, yeah. You know what? Because nothing
34:13
made me happier in the third grade
34:15
than to get that gold star. Right?
34:17
Yeah. So satisfying. So satisfying. Yeah, no.
34:21
But what I found is that
34:23
when I would do something, thinking like, oh, good, this is
34:25
going to get me a gold star, especially
34:27
for my husband, and then I I
34:30
didn't get one. I was eight. If he didn't notice that you did it.
34:32
He didn't notice. Oh, I cleaned up the kitchen. He didn't say
34:34
anything. Like, what? He didn't notice? Like, I did this whole nice
34:37
thing for him. And so
34:39
then I'd get angry and resentful. And I
34:41
realized that if I would just acknowledge that
34:44
I love a gold star, but I'm
34:47
not going to expect them from him. I'm
34:49
not going to expect a standing ovation every time I do
34:51
something. That's giving up
34:53
calculation, right? Yeah, that's giving. It's all tied
34:55
together. All tied together, yeah. Then
34:59
it didn't matter how he reacted. Because I
35:01
think this desire for gold stars really gets
35:03
you into this really negative balance
35:06
with people. Where you're, at least for me,
35:08
I was wanting to get something from them.
35:10
And angry when I didn't get it, it
35:12
was all in my head. Are
35:14
you happier now? I am. I
35:16
am. My experience of my life is
35:18
a lot happier. Everything I've done.
35:21
Why do you think we're all here, Gretchen?
35:24
What are we all doing on the planet?
35:26
What's our purpose as human beings? What are
35:28
we all here doing? I
35:30
think our purpose is to accept
35:33
ourselves and to expect more
35:35
from ourselves, to understand who
35:37
we are, and to expect ourselves
35:39
to live up to that ideal better.
35:41
Leave better than we came. Yes. Better
35:45
than before. Better than before. Do
35:47
you think that being happier made you
35:49
a more soulful, connected, spiritual person? I'm
35:53
like the least mindful person on the planet. And
35:56
really working on it like this really helped
35:58
me connect. It's a
36:01
more spiritual way of living. It seems
36:03
like also living a
36:05
life that allows you to be better
36:07
than before, living a life
36:09
where happiness and mindfulness is
36:12
at the core of your center,
36:14
it would bring you to a
36:17
greater sense of awareness
36:20
and fulfillment and gratitude. Like
36:23
you would live in the space of gratitude. No, absolutely.
36:25
I mean, I think the sense of thankfulness,
36:27
appreciating the grandeur of everyday life, just the
36:29
ordinary day and really taking the time to
36:31
take it in is absolutely
36:34
crucial. And then when you have that thankfulness also,
36:36
then so many other negative
36:38
emotions get washed away,
36:40
like resentment and anger
36:42
and grievances, grudges, because
36:45
you're just so thankful for what you have. It really puts
36:47
it. And it's better with a sense
36:49
of humor. It helps me keep my sense of humor,
36:51
because it helps me keep my sense of perspective. And
36:54
your advice to people who are
36:56
stepping into this path, into their
36:59
own happiness project. You
37:01
know, I mean, from my observation, it seems like
37:03
sometimes people get discouraged. They feel overwhelmed, or they've
37:05
struggled with things before, and they haven't succeeded. And
37:07
so they feel concerned or
37:10
drained. But really, from what
37:12
I've done with myself and what
37:14
I've seen from other people, is that when you take the time,
37:16
when we think about what's
37:19
really true for ourselves and think
37:21
about how to put that into practice in our
37:23
everyday life, there really
37:25
are things that we can do to really
37:29
make ourselves happier and healthier and
37:31
more productive and have the life that
37:33
we really feel like we were meant to have. Well,
37:36
I thank you, because you made me want
37:38
to do my own happiness project. Excellent. Yeah.
37:40
Terrific. And I'm already pretty happy. Yeah. Yeah,
37:42
but I'm going to up the ante. There
37:44
you go. I'm going to send you two
37:46
emoji thumbs up. Excellent.
37:49
Excellent. Thank you. Thank you. I'm
37:53
Oprah Winfrey, and you've been listening
37:55
to Super Soul Conversations, the podcast.
37:57
You can follow Super Soul on Instagram.
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you haven't yet, go to Apple Podcasts
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38:07
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38:09
me next week for another Super Soul Conversation.
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