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0:02

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0:31

Hello

0:31

and welcome to my time

0:34

capsule.

0:36

My name's

0:40

Mike Fenton Stevens and my time capsule

0:43

is a podcast where I asked my guests to

0:45

tell me the five things from their life that

0:47

they would like to have in a time capsule. They

0:50

pick four things that they cherish and one thing

0:52

that they'd like to forget, something they want

0:54

to bury in the ground and never think of again.

0:57

My guest in this episode is the ex-standup

0:59

comedian, ex-presenter, ex-award-winning

1:02

radio DJ and talk show host, ex-Breakfast

1:05

TV host, ex-I'm a celebrity

1:07

get-me-out-of-here contestant, ex-record

1:09

label owner.

1:10

Oh, look, let's face it, Ian Lee

1:12

has done most things. His TV

1:14

career started on the 11 o'clock show on

1:17

Channel 4, which was the starting point

1:19

for comedians such as Ricky Gervais and

1:21

Sacha Baron Cohen. He moved

1:23

in 2002 to become the co-host

1:26

of Channel 4's live breakfast show, Rise,

1:29

which unfortunately only lasted about a year.

1:31

He went on to present Thumb Bandits,

1:33

a video game show, and Liquid

1:35

News, and was in Celebrity Soup, Law

1:38

of the Playground, My Worst Week,

1:40

How Do They Do It, The One Show,

1:42

Sky News, and he made regular

1:44

appearances on on this morning and Big

1:47

Brother's companion series bit on the psych

1:49

and Big Brother's little brother. He

1:51

actually came third in the 2017 series

1:54

of I'm a Celebrity, which is not bad. His

1:56

extensive radio work includes shows

1:58

on XFM

2:00

LBC Absolute Radio, where

2:02

he hosted the Sunday night show and then the Monday

2:04

to Thursday evening slot. He won a Radio

2:06

Academy Award in 2014 for Breakfast

2:09

Show of the Year, moved to Talk Radio

2:11

in 2016, winning the Audio and

2:13

Radio Industry Award for Best Speech

2:15

Presenter – personally, I prefer my DJs

2:18

to use Semaphore – and he won that award

2:20

again in 2020, this time

2:22

for Moment of the Year, for directing

2:25

emergency services to a caller who

2:27

had taken an overdose, which he talks about

2:29

in more detail

2:30

in this podcast. In July 2020, Ian

2:33

announced that he'd been signed by Twitch

2:35

to continue hosting the late-night alternative

2:38

on its streaming platform. The show

2:40

allows video calls from viewers worldwide.

2:43

In 2023, Ian announced his

2:45

retirement from radio in order to focus

2:47

more on his work as a counsellor. So

2:50

there you are. There are some things that Wikipedia

2:53

will tell you about Ian Lee. But

2:55

What does he think are the important things in his

2:57

life? Well, let's find out, shall we? Here

2:59

is

3:00

the delightful Ian Lee, and

3:02

a bit of me. I hope you enjoy our conversation

3:04

as much as I did.

3:08

How are you? What have you been up to? I've retired

3:10

from show business. I don't know if you've heard. Yeah,

3:13

that was the rumor. And I feel

3:15

fantastic, 30 years of chasing,

3:17

chasing, chasing, chasing. And,

3:20

you know, the circle gradually getting smaller and

3:22

smaller, and the last job I did on this

3:24

little breakfast show in Oxford. I

3:26

hated it, didn't like it. There was stuff

3:28

going on, you know, stuff was going on there.

3:30

There's always stuff going on. And I guess, I'm

3:33

not enjoying this. I wonder what would happen if

3:35

I stopped. And in the meantime, I'd

3:37

retrained as a counselor.

3:38

So I have a plan B for the first

3:40

time ever in my life. I have a plan B. So

3:43

what led you down that route there? What made you think,

3:45

do you know what? That's something I'd be interested

3:47

in doing, being a counselor. I can tell you the moment

3:49

that it kind of clicked was

3:52

about four years

3:54

ago, we had a guy find out the radio

3:56

show, when I was doing the late night radio show, and

3:58

he'd taken an overdose.

6:00

of three or four

6:02

I'm proud of in terms of the work.

6:04

And I've, you know, people say, Oh no, but you did this, you did this and

6:06

this, but it doesn't register with me. It doesn't

6:09

connect. No, I don't really think about

6:11

the work after I've done it. Yeah.

6:13

I like doing it. Yeah. I mean, so

6:16

really I'm sort of chasing self

6:18

satisfaction. I sort of find

6:20

it enjoyable to do. Yeah. So

6:22

in fact, I'm just fulfilling my, my wish to

6:25

be indulged. Well, and

6:27

I understand that what's interesting is,

6:29

you know, now I'm a counselor, and I've got clients and I'm

6:32

private practice, and it's

6:34

not completely altruistic. One, I'm being paid. So

6:37

there's a financial side. Two, I

6:39

really, really enjoy it. I get

6:41

pleasure out of it. So I'm not just doing it for the

6:43

person set opposite me. I'm getting pleasure

6:46

out of it. Yeah, which is some

6:48

people find a little bit weird in terms of, you

6:50

know, that but actually, no, I think it's it's a human.

6:53

It's a human thing. as if you ought to be some

6:56

sort of saintly Mother Teresa

6:58

type thing. I do nothing for myself, I just

7:00

give, give, give. I'm suffering,

7:03

I'm feeling their pain. And you know,

7:05

it's very, very early days. I'm finding it

7:07

so satisfying. And of course, you know,

7:09

if someone came with a really good offer, you

7:11

know, and the money was right

7:14

and it fitted in the court, you know, of course I do it. Of course I

7:16

do another show. Yeah. I mean, in fact, you may even

7:18

find then having found this other side of

7:20

your life, that the job then is really

7:22

good because you go, well, actually, this is unimportant. This This

7:24

is just a piece of flimsy that

7:27

I do. Do you know what? I got that. I

7:29

remember the moment I got that none of this TV stuff

7:31

matters and radio stuff matters. I was doing a breakfast

7:33

TV show, not the big breakfast. It was what came after

7:36

Rise that flopped miserably because people

7:38

are doing the big breakfast.

7:39

And I couldn't get it. I'd never done a live

7:41

TV show, two hour live TV show, and

7:43

I couldn't get it. I couldn't get it. And then

7:45

three months in, I thought, oh,

7:47

this isn't important. The only one that

7:49

thinks it's important is me. This is fluff.

7:52

And if I do a bad show, it doesn't matter because I'm

7:54

doing another show tomorrow. once

7:57

I got, you know, and it was that thing, we're all going

7:59

to die.

8:00

that no one's gonna remember, you know, once I

8:02

got that thing, this is not important,

8:04

show business is not important, it suddenly

8:06

becomes so much easier, doesn't it?

8:08

It does, I think it really does because

8:10

actually the longevity of it makes that

8:12

clear, I think, is that for

8:14

some people, these things are important and

8:16

they like that sort of trivia in

8:19

a way, they like looking back at detail

8:21

and that's fine, have fun. But I get

8:24

sent photographs, oh look, I've just found this image

8:26

of you doing home James. And

8:29

I go, oh, with Jim Davidson. Oh, God,

8:32

I'm James. And I've absolutely

8:34

forgotten that I did it. Yeah. And it's

8:36

not interesting, because I remember I'm James and it was huge,

8:38

but with no disrespect to you, most

8:40

people won't remember that. You know, it's

8:43

gone. But it's really hitting me recently.

8:46

When I'm on my death bed, I will not be saying,

8:48

I wish I'd done more radio shows. I

8:50

wish I'd pushed harder to get that script

8:54

picked up. It'll be, I wish I spent more time

8:56

with my kids. I wish I'd had more

8:58

holidays. I wish I'd, you know, had sex

9:00

more. I wish I'd done all of this living stuff

9:03

more, which is, we forget

9:05

to do. I can't have more sex, surely.

9:07

Jesus,

9:08

how much are you doing? I dig it at the moment.

9:11

You're gonna be asked, shooting sand.

9:15

I think I'm digging it, am I doing it wrong? Well, I

9:17

thank God I can't see what's going on downstairs. I'm

9:20

not a sex therapist, I cannot help you with that.

9:23

No, okay. Can I ask you one question before

9:25

we start? And then if the answer's yes, it will become clear

9:27

and if the answers know it won't become clear, I'll

9:29

explain. Did you ever work on Simon

9:31

Mayo's TV show, Confessions? I

9:34

did, yeah. We'll talk about that in the thing then. Oh,

9:36

okay. Yeah. All right. No, it's

9:38

nothing bad, don't worry, it's nothing bad. No. It's

9:40

not, you know, it's not a, I don't mind either way.

9:42

As we've pointed out, this is insignificant.

9:45

There we go, beautiful, very zen. Right,

9:47

are we stuck? Oh, shut up. You do what you need

9:49

to do. No, there's no start, there's no shut up. We

9:52

just sort of segue beautifully

9:55

into you telling me about the five things from your life

9:57

you put into time capsule, which you may

9:59

have already.

10:00

started. I don't know. I know I have it. But

10:02

okay, well, in that case, very quickly, I will just

10:04

let me just move that next. There's my list. I did a

10:06

list. We have met before.

10:09

And I do not expect you to remember it. There's no reason you would remember

10:11

it at all. Because this was before I was on TV. I

10:14

asked you if you've worked on Simon Mayo's Confessions.

10:16

Right. The reason I asked that is because my sister worked on it,

10:19

Joe Rugby, she would have been at the time. And

10:21

she was a I think she was a runner. I'm not quite

10:23

sure she was she was doing something, you know, the

10:25

one of the people that are often overlooked

10:27

but actually is integral. And me

10:30

and my friend Simon, we were budding

10:32

actors and performers and she

10:34

said, do you want to come and see how the show's made and what's

10:36

going on? I said, yeah, yeah, sure, that would be great. I

10:39

think it was at LWT, the London

10:41

Studios. It was, yes. Yeah.

10:44

And so we came in and we got to sit in the office,

10:46

you know, there's Simon Mayo over in the corner and

10:48

there's the director and we

10:50

were sat at a table and directly

10:53

opposite was

10:53

you because I'm assuming you were

10:56

a writer on it. No, I did

10:58

the voiceover. Oh, okay.

11:01

You were there and me and my friend Simon,

11:03

we were both a little bit, oh my, oh my Susan's

11:06

oh my god, this is so dear. We

11:09

were trying to play it cool. And then

11:11

I said something that made

11:13

you laugh, right? That sense of pride

11:15

and made you laugh. And I never forget this, the

11:17

most ridiculous line, but it's a line that keeps

11:19

coming back to me. My friend Simon said, Oh,

11:22

look, you made the laugh to make a laugh. And

11:24

that that must have been 96, I think, 97.

11:29

I'm not sure. So that line has always

11:31

stuck with me, me saying something funny. No idea

11:33

what

11:33

it was. You giggling or chuckling. Riley

11:36

and Simon saying made the laugh to make a laugh, made

11:39

the laugh to make a laugh. Well, how lovely

11:41

to be a laughter maker. Well, you are. And you

11:43

know, I nearly said you were.

11:45

What a terrible thing. It may be true. So

11:48

so, yes, we I met

11:51

is a strong word, but we sat opposite each other.

11:53

It was before I was on telly, before, you know, I was still, Probably

11:55

still at college, I think. Well, thank God. I

11:58

wasn't a bastard then.

14:00

Bill Oddy was furious about this, you

14:02

know, and things

14:04

like KYT we talked earlier about, actually,

14:07

it may seem insignificant to you, I don't know,

14:09

but that was one of the key things

14:11

in me developing, in me learning

14:14

what I thought was funny, me learning humor and timing

14:17

and what was funny and what wasn't funny

14:19

and your show wasn't funny.

14:24

So that was integral. When was the, well,

14:27

let me flip this. This is the problem of having

14:29

someone on who interviews people. I'm going to flip it.

14:32

What was your first time on TV?

14:34

Not on the 9 o'clock news. Was it really? Yeah,

14:36

it's not weird. What a show to be on. And

14:39

do you remember the first gag or the first sketch that

14:41

got broadcast? Yeah. I

14:44

can't actually remember what the sketch was, but I know

14:46

that it was set on an aeroplane

14:49

and I was sitting next to Griff and

14:52

bizarrely I was knitting. I

14:56

was knitting at the time. I'd learnt to knit. And

14:58

I said, shall I knit? And they went, yeah, OK.

15:01

Don't say that when I've just taken a mouthful of coffee, please.

15:04

New

15:04

trousers. I've no idea. I

15:06

was still a student. I was brought down to London by John

15:09

Lloyd. Thrilling? Was it thrilling?

15:12

I mean, we talked about how we don't really remember

15:14

some of the stuff, so this may be a hazy

15:16

mist to you. I can't

15:18

remember if it was thrilling, actually. I think that

15:21

I

15:21

just felt, oh, this is what I'm supposed to

15:24

do, you know. I knew that's what I wanted

15:26

to do. And then suddenly I was in it

15:28

and I had no idea of the rules at all.

15:31

So I spent, I just followed John Lloyd

15:33

around who was producing it. They'd already done

15:35

a series and I just

15:37

followed John around. I remember sitting

15:40

with him and Sean Hardy writing jokes.

15:42

Incredible. He said, come and join us. I got

15:45

new ideas for the news links. And I said,

15:47

I don't know. And I just started writing

15:49

jokes. Do you know, I don't think I'd ever written

15:51

a joke in my life at that point. Really? That was it.

15:54

you were suddenly with two

15:56

great people to be working on. Botany, G

15:58

Without Stan Lee, Gangs.

16:00

I know. And actually

16:02

it turns out that I could write jokes. I

16:04

went, what about that? They were not quite funny. Anyway,

16:07

No, writing is a, writing is a dark art

16:09

to me. I can't write gags. Can't really tell

16:11

gags and my stuff I've done is often not

16:13

gag based, particularly not in the last 15 years on

16:15

the radio. I cannot write gags. And

16:18

to me, it's like someone writing a symphony or,

16:20

you know, doing some dark art incantation.

16:23

Don't get it. You know, it's, it's, it's, It's incredible

16:25

to see it. So

16:28

the first time proper on TV

16:30

was the 11 o'clock show. Really? It

16:32

was. And it had been a huge

16:35

buildup to it. Because I studied performing

16:37

arts in Middle-Sex University the

16:39

year after it became a university before it

16:41

was a polytechnic. And I wanted

16:43

to be an actor. That was the thing I really wanted to do, to be an

16:45

actor. There was a wonderful tutor there, a guy called

16:47

Hugh Thomas, who taught

16:50

a module on stand-up comedy. Now,

16:52

you can't be taught how to be funny. It

16:55

was more about the mechanics of what

16:58

stand up could be. And he basically said, it

17:00

can be anything you want. You know, learn

17:02

some microphone technique, you can do anything.

17:05

So I ended up after college, I couldn't get any acting work,

17:08

so I was doing stand up. And that

17:10

led to me getting a small little slot

17:12

on a breakfast show on a radio station

17:14

in Milton Keynes. I was Ian in Black Thunder.

17:17

And I had to drive around Milton Keynes getting people

17:19

to do stuff. And I hated it, really hated

17:21

it. It just didn't click for

17:23

me. So after six months of quit, on

17:26

the week that I quit, one

17:28

of the team came in and said, oh, we've had a faxing,

17:30

you might be interested in this. And

17:32

it was channel four, or

17:35

maybe talk about productions and looking to create

17:37

a new nightly topical comedy

17:40

show, We Will See Anybody is

17:42

basically what it said, We Will See Anybody. And

17:45

I thought, all right, I'm gonna have some of this. I had an

17:47

agent at the time, I said, put me forward

17:49

for this. He said, no, I don't think you're right.

17:50

I said, I really wanna go for this. He said, I

17:52

don't think you're right for it. So I put myself

17:55

forward for it. And this was my last roll of the dice

17:57

because I was out of college, had

17:59

no...

18:00

money was back living with my mum. I must

18:02

have been 24 or 25. And this was the last

18:04

roll of the dice before I went and got a proper job.

18:08

And I went for the audition and the audition was me

18:10

filming a little Vox pop thing and doing a little

18:13

silly news thing that I had written so it was a bit

18:15

clunky. And I kept

18:17

getting called back. And I was

18:19

called back with you you will have been good friends

18:21

with this guy by Harry Thompson, the

18:24

wonderful Harry Thompson whose

18:26

fingers you know, we're all over comedy and

18:28

still has an influence even though he's

18:30

no longer with us, still has a huge

18:32

influence on how comedy TV is made

18:34

and edited and stuff. And

18:36

he kept calling me back and calling me back.

18:39

And in the end, he said, I really want you on this show, would

18:41

you do it?

18:42

Yes, I'll do it. And

18:44

originally, I was, yeah, he's got to say

18:46

no to him. And originally, although I wish I had

18:48

said no a few times, particularly when he made me do,

18:50

they think it's all over, which was bloody hideous.

18:53

Hated. Anyway, so

18:56

I was just gonna be this guy that did the Vox Pops on

18:58

the street, And they auditioned everyone, comedians,

19:00

radio presenters, writers, to be one

19:02

of the three main presenters. And

19:05

the week before it went out, it was going to go out Tuesday,

19:07

Wednesdays, Thursdays. And the week before,

19:10

they had Brendan Burns

19:12

and they had Fred McCauley. They were locked

19:14

in, but they didn't have the third. And

19:16

they kept trying people and kept trying people. And

19:19

I have no idea where this confidence came from. I

19:22

went up to Harry and said, I can do that.

19:24

I'd never done it before. I went, I can do

19:26

that. And he went, this is why

19:28

he was so great. He went, you know what, we'll take a punt. Let's

19:30

do a pilot with you. This was on the Thursday,

19:33

the week before it started on the Tuesday. And I thought you

19:35

said you were brilliant, you're in. So suddenly

19:37

I'm hosting a TV show

19:40

on channel four with Fred and Brendan. And

19:43

I'll shut up in a minute because I want to hear your voice

19:45

more than mine. The premise of it was, it was

19:47

all filmed on the day.

19:48

The premise was slightly not quite true, but it

19:50

would be written on the day and filmed on the day.

19:53

So I went out and recorded a Vox Pop. I came back

19:55

in the afternoon. All the gangs were written, I sat

19:57

down there and I read an auto cue. Brilliant.

20:00

thrilling. The real thrill

20:02

was going home with my then girlfriend Tessa to

20:04

her house, because I was still living at Mums. And

20:07

we got a bottle of wine and we sat and watched it.

20:10

Oh my God, I can feel it now. The excitement,

20:12

the pride, the thrill.

20:15

It

20:15

wasn't quite what I wanted to do. It wasn't

20:17

acting, but I was on telly

20:20

hosting a TV show, a third wheel in a

20:22

TV show. Oh my God. Yeah. I feel it now.

20:24

I feel the excitement now. Nothing like it. No,

20:26

I bet. Nothing like it. I bet.

20:29

I mean, and it was a brilliant show. It was exactly

20:32

what everybody had been trying to do

20:34

for a long time. Yeah. I did

20:36

a nightly live show, but sadly

20:38

we did it for BSB before it

20:40

became B Sky B. Oh. So

20:42

with the Squarial. The Squarial. Let's

20:44

just take a moment. The Squarial.

20:45

Kids, you've got no idea with your high

20:48

speed broadband. We had squarials.

20:52

Slightly classier than those round ones. Yeah.

20:57

What was the show you did? I think it was called Up Your

20:59

News. I think that's what it was

21:01

called. But it had to be with Caroline Quinton

21:03

and Paul Merton did a few. Some

21:06

good actors. We had a guest

21:08

host each time. For us

21:10

it was a joy. We had people like Swipe Milligan

21:13

turned up and did a night. Kenneth Connor I remember.

21:15

I'm going to write

21:18

this down. I want to look this

21:20

up later on. Up Your News. I've

21:22

never seen it. seen

21:24

it. That writing that stuff in a day is tough.

21:27

That is tough. The whole thing done in

21:29

a day. Yeah, it was fun. Incredible. And that's what

21:31

the 11 o'clock show was. And it was the springboard.

21:33

People forget some of the people that worked on that in front of

21:35

the camera behind the camera. Jimmy Carr

21:38

was the warmup man. Jimmy Carr

21:40

and Robin Ince were the warmup men.

21:42

You know, imagine having Jimmy was on

21:44

the show. I don't know if he ever

21:45

appeared on the show.

21:47

Jimmy Carr. Jimmy Carr. Whatever

21:49

happened to him. I don't know he

21:51

went. Jimmy Carr Robinin's Ricky

21:54

Gervais, his first TV show,

21:56

Mackenzie Crook, who I was living living with at the time. Mackenzie

21:58

were flatmates and I was kind of

24:00

of comedy and sitting

24:02

opposite that. Wow! I

24:05

imagine similar to you sitting on a writing

24:07

table with John Lloyd, another master

24:09

of comedy. You just feel that energy

24:12

coming from them, that electricity zapping out of them. Yeah,

24:14

yeah, it's really obvious, isn't it? When you see

24:16

them. The first Edinburgh Festival I did as

24:19

a student, we shared a dressing room

24:21

with the Cambridge Footlights and

24:23

in that Footlights team were Hugh

24:25

Laurie, Stephen Fry and Emma Thompson.

24:28

Oh, incredible. Now, I mean, incredible. We

24:30

knew that you and Stephen were funny, but Emma

24:32

Thompson, to see her on stage in front

24:34

of an audience, even at that young age,

24:37

it was so obvious. You thought, oh, she's

24:39

going to be enormously famous. People, I think,

24:41

sometimes forget because of some of her movies, she's

24:43

hilarious. And, you

24:45

know, I imagine back then, there's still

24:48

some times, do you remember that thing, women

24:50

aren't funny? Do you remember that? That was a real,

24:52

well, name a woman that makes me, well, there's

24:54

loads of them. But

24:56

I would imagine back then, what was

24:58

this, early 80s, late 70s? When

25:01

would that have been? That's when she did her own television

25:03

series. She did, yeah. Thompson. Yeah.

25:07

And it was, I was attacked from every angle. It had

25:09

some very funny stuff in it. But right

25:11

from the start, it had that attitude of, she's

25:13

just a woman on her own. How can that be funny?

25:16

Exactly. Speaking of women on their own, you

25:18

also worked on the Kate Robbins show. I

25:20

did, yeah. I know Kate

25:22

a bit, you know, and she is so

25:24

delightful. When she was in Crossroads,

25:26

she was a very, very important woman

25:29

in my life as a, as a young man, because she was,

25:32

she still is hot, hot. I'm going to say

25:34

Kate Roman's your hot. And another

25:37

woman who, you know, getting

25:39

your place, you are, you are not meant

25:41

to be funny. You're meant to be the support

25:43

for the funny man. Yeah, and

25:46

she is so talented as well. It's so

25:48

funny the voices and the characters and

25:51

the sing She does everything and everything

25:53

but I love the fact that she's now been discovered as

25:55

an actress Yes, that actually she's she's

25:57

suddenly doing all sorts of serious

25:58

stuff and Ricky

26:00

in a way led to that, putting her in after

26:02

life. That's true actually, yeah.

26:04

People went, oh my God, yeah, Kate's good, isn't

26:06

she? And I think that she's having a real resurgence.

26:09

Yeah, and I think you're right. You have

26:11

to ride the wave. If you're lucky, you have a period

26:14

where you're really successful, everyone loves

26:16

you, and everyone knows your name. There are exceptions,

26:18

but there is almost inevitably that downswing where

26:21

you're out of fashion, you're not so hot, I

26:23

don't mean in terms of looks, but I mean in terms of

26:26

being wanted by TV companies. And

26:28

some people, when that wave dips,

26:31

they go, oh, you know what, I'm done, I'm out. And

26:33

Kate is brilliant because she rode that wave and

26:35

she came back up and she, and

26:37

naturally funny as well. Yeah, yeah. Do

26:39

you know, she hardly recognizes it in herself. It's

26:42

weird. Really? There's a number of conversations

26:44

I've had with Kate where I've said, you are just

26:46

one of the funniest women. She's, oh no,

26:48

I'm really boring.

26:50

Wow, isn't that funny how we see ourselves? And

26:52

going back to confessions, Ted

26:54

Robbins was the warmup for confessions.

26:57

Yeah. You know, what a family, you

26:59

know, because they're cousins obviously of the McCartney's,

27:01

you know, I'm a big fan of Mike

27:05

and Paul, since they couldn't remember his name for it.

27:08

I'm like, Mike and Deed's brother.

27:10

I love it. I

27:13

am lucky enough to know Mike a little

27:15

bit. And he always talks about our kid. So

27:17

our kids was, you know, I think that's so

27:19

lovely.

27:20

I asked him once, I was interviewing

27:22

Mike, I said, Mike, can I ask you a question? He

27:24

said, you can ask me, I think. So what's Paul McCartney's phone number?

27:27

And he rattled off the phone number from

27:29

when they were like 10 years old. And

27:31

I thought, that's what a great answer

27:33

to a dumb question. And how

27:36

wonderful that you remember that.

27:39

Because they have not yet been, but I want to go

27:41

to McCartney's and Lennon's houses, you

27:43

know, the National Trust. And Mike

27:46

pretty much made the McCartney's

27:48

house look like it did in the late

27:50

50s. You know, he was the one that went right. Well,

27:52

this was the this was the wallpaper. This was the carpet.

27:54

These are the photos that we had hanging up. He's

27:57

such a talent as well.

27:59

What family what?

29:46

I

30:00

did watch every show because I wanted to learn.

30:02

And I wanted to go, right, what did I do right?

30:04

Why did that gag not work? Why did you, what,

30:07

that was good. I'm gonna do that again. So

30:09

I did used to watch it then as a learning tool and

30:11

it was nice for the ego. But no, now I

30:14

have no interest in seeing me.

30:17

I live with me and I get on my nerves all the time.

30:19

I don't wanna see me. Yeah, quite. And

30:24

as time goes by, you just look and go,

30:26

gee, what the fuck has happened to me? What's...

30:30

I don't look like that. Who is that old

30:32

bloke? I

30:34

did something a while ago and then there was like

30:37

a shot and it was on a big screen. I said, why have

30:39

you got a picture of my dad up there? What's

30:41

going on? Yep.

30:44

Yep, I'm getting older. Oh, well, all right.

30:46

Well, let's put that in as the first thing there. Okay, thank

30:49

you. Fantastic. Okay, good. Let's move

30:51

on to number two. I keep looking to my left

30:53

because I've got my things typed on the screen and

30:55

I've just realised I've got

30:56

five good things. I'm thinking, right, well, which one?

30:59

Which one do I kick out? So I

31:01

tell you what I'm gonna put in. I'm gonna put in the

31:04

made for television pop group, The

31:06

Monkees. I adore

31:09

The Monkees.

31:10

When I was about four

31:13

or five, so that would have been about 78, 79,

31:16

my parents gave me a dance

31:18

set record player. Oh my God, I

31:20

loved it. And they gave me four records.

31:23

One of them was the William Tell Overture. Thanks

31:25

guys. One of them was,

31:27

I'm embarrassed

31:30

to say, one of them was the black and white minstrels

31:32

to a four or five year old, wow. The

31:35

other two, one was the monkey's

31:37

first album and they're single, I'm a believer,

31:39

back with I'm not your stepping stone. And

31:42

as a kid, I was obsessed with it. I was obsessed,

31:44

it's something was going on.

31:47

Then a few years later, they repeated

31:49

the TV show during the school holidays.

31:52

And I just, something

31:54

clicked and it became an obsession.

31:58

And this obsession has gone on. oh

32:00

my god, 45 years, you know, I'm 50 this year. And

32:04

it was an obsession, you know, when I got to about 13, 14, I

32:07

remember all I had was this album and this

32:10

single. And when I was about 13, I've

32:12

got to buy a greatest hit. I've got to go out and buy a

32:14

record. And I didn't have enough money.

32:16

I went to our price records

32:19

in Slough, of Me Shopping Center,

32:21

and I went in and I was about two pounds short.

32:23

I was like, oh God. So

32:25

I went to the fountain. There was a fountain

32:28

outside people would chuck coins in. If it's

32:30

November, it was freezing cold, it was November, it was so

32:32

cold. I

32:35

took the coins out of the fountain. Some

32:37

poor charity has suffered about two or three

32:39

quid. And I took these coins out

32:42

and I went to the shop and I bought this record. And it

32:44

was, you know, people talk

32:46

about the first time they saw Bowie on

32:48

TV and they go, oh, it was life changing because

32:51

you didn't know if he was a boy or a girl, you didn't, you know,

32:53

and it just, he was a freak like me.

32:56

This album was my David

32:58

Bowie. I took it home and

33:00

every song was better than the last. I thought, wow,

33:03

how is this happening? How is this happening? This

33:05

is incredible. And I was really lucky because

33:07

that moment was around the time

33:09

the Monkees got back together, three of them got back together, 86.

33:13

So they were a real thing

33:16

again, real inverted comments. They were a touring

33:18

act and I was able to get

33:20

information about what they were doing and the

33:23

the fact that they were touring and I would buy these horrible

33:25

bootleg

33:26

videos that were terrible quality. And

33:28

then they came over to the UK in 1987. Me and my friend Michael

33:32

went at the Royal Albert Hall.

33:34

Oh my God, I felt alive. I

33:37

felt absolutely alive.

33:39

It was wonderful to see

33:41

these heroes. Oh, I bet it was. Well,

33:43

I was going to say old men.

33:45

They would have been about 38, 39 at the time, you know, And

33:51

that obsession grew and grew and grew

33:53

and I was very lucky with my friend Glen

33:55

a few years ago. We set up a record

33:57

label. not to do with it now it's it's Glenn

33:59

but we set

34:00

up this record label solely to put

34:02

out obscure Monkeys records, solo

34:05

records and stuff like that. I ended

34:07

up working with three of them. No,

34:09

I ended up working with two of them, but being friends with the

34:11

family of Davey as well. I

34:15

ended up working with Mike Nesmith and Mickey Dolan's

34:18

and we would e-mail each other. I had Mickey's

34:20

phone number and I went out for lunch

34:22

with him late last year when he came over

34:25

and I can call Mickey Dolan's

34:27

a friend. This is amazing. And

34:30

13-year-old me, who's still

34:32

inside, you know, I was having lunch with

34:34

him and thinking, oh my God, oh my God, there's a million dollars

34:36

all there, don't stare at

34:38

him.

34:39

They have brought me so much pleasure. I took

34:42

my eldest son when he would have been six

34:46

to a monkey's concert. His first ever concert, Hammersmith

34:48

Odeon. We were sat at the front and

34:52

he was loving it. And then there's a bit in the show

34:54

during the song going down where Dole

34:56

N's would go and get an audience member to sing a verse.

34:59

And he's walking across and he looked at me and

35:01

recognized me and he went, do you want a date? I went, yes I

35:03

do. That's what I got. And I'm

35:05

singing,

35:06

going down, looking at Mickey Dole

35:08

N's, locking eyes and I handed the microphone

35:10

back and a big, big cheer. And

35:13

I turned around and my six-year-old

35:15

at the time, he's 13 now, Alex was

35:17

sat there with his legs scrunched up like this,

35:19

hands over his eyes and

35:22

he wouldn't look at me. most embarrassed. No, my

35:24

dad. Oh, no. Yeah. And I said, how are

35:26

you feeling? He said, I don't, I can't

35:28

put it into words, but my stomach is whizzing around

35:30

and my head hurts. I went, son, that's

35:33

embarrassment.

35:34

That's my job. There's going to be plenty more where

35:36

that comes from. Yeah.

35:39

Oh, how brilliant. Yeah. What a thing though.

35:41

Yeah. What did you call the record label? The

35:44

record label is 7A Records because there's a lovely bit at the beginning

35:46

of Daydream Believer where the producer goes

35:49

7A. And Davey says, what number is this? And

35:51

they all go 7A. All right,

35:53

just because I'm sure I know. So we called it

35:55

7A, and it was a successful thing. We weren't

35:57

lighting cigars with 50 pound notes.

36:00

But we brought a lot of pleasure to people.

36:02

You know, it's very, very nice. I think our biggest

36:04

record may have sold a thousand. They tended to sell

36:06

three, 400, but what an impact.

36:08

And it was stuff, really obscure stuff that would never

36:10

get released. And people

36:13

loved it, you know, it brought a lot of pleasure. Well,

36:15

it's interesting with the music of the Monkeys, isn't it? Because

36:17

that first album would have almost entirely been

36:19

written by the extremely famous songwriters

36:22

from the time. Oh yeah. I mean,

36:24

Neil Diamond, he was on the second, but Carole King

36:26

was on there. Carole King, yeah. Who was

36:28

on there? I think,

36:31

I don't know if she was on that one.

36:33

I think she might've been on the second. David

36:35

Gates, it was great. And of course the control

36:37

was, well, they're not a real band. Well, they're not

36:40

a real band. They don't play on their albums.

36:42

Well, they didn't play on their first two. They played on the later

36:44

ones. Who cares? Yeah,

36:46

and actually some of those later ones are the songs

36:49

that they wrote for themselves were really

36:51

interesting. And they showed that, you

36:53

know, they'd been set up as the American Beatles. And

36:56

they showed that actually they, to a large extent

36:58

had the same sort of innovative

37:00

skills. Yeah, you know, the

37:02

Beatles are the Beatles, the greatest rock and roll band in the

37:05

world. You'll never come close. But

37:07

yeah, Mike Nesmith, I believe, invented

37:09

country rock, the eagles, you know, the eagles went

37:11

on to do it, and the birds

37:13

went on to do it. And Dolan's wrote this great

37:15

song called Randy Scouse-Gitt, right,

37:17

and he got the name because he watched

37:19

this, it would have been till Death Us Do

37:22

Part, or, you know, the Alf

37:24

Garnett thing, whatever the name of it was at that point. And

37:26

during that show, Alf Garnett would call his son-in-law

37:29

a Randy Scouse git. And that phrase

37:31

meant nothing to Dolan. He wrote, well, I'm nicking that. And

37:33

that's gonna be the title of my song. And

37:36

the record label went that. You cannot have a song

37:38

called Randy Scouse git. You need an alternate

37:40

title. So we said, we'll call it that, alternate

37:43

title. And people don't realize

37:45

that was a bigger hit than Daydream Believer. That

37:47

went to number two. Daydream Believer, I think went to number

37:50

four or five. You could, so

37:52

full of boring stats. No, it's crazy

37:54

though, isn't it? That whole thing of, well, they're not a real

37:56

bad, who cares? Who cares?

37:58

You know, it's just music.

38:00

Is the music good? Well, they would to you as well, wouldn't they? Yeah.

38:03

I wish my friend Jeremy Paschal was still alive. He

38:05

was a DJ with Capitol Radio for quite a long time.

38:07

Okay. But when he was a young man,

38:10

he worked for the NME. Yeah. And was given

38:12

the option of interviewing the Beatles

38:15

or the Monkeys. Oh. And

38:17

he forever after was known as

38:19

Jeremy the Monkeys Paschal because

38:22

he picked the Monkeys. How fantastic.

38:25

He made the right choice, I believe.

38:27

And maybe he did, you know, lots of people

38:29

interviewed the Beatles, but he got to talk to them.

38:32

The monk is right at the start. Can I just say, by

38:34

the way, dear listener,

38:35

you don't know what I'm going to talk about, do you?

38:38

No. And how wonderful that you're able to

38:40

reference your friend and have

38:42

a story that's connected to this. That's

38:44

the thing I've noticed. I've heard the podcast a couple

38:47

of times. You have a story for

38:49

everything that's thrown

38:51

at you. Let's hope I'm not making them up. That's

38:54

all. Well, I'm going to ask an important

38:56

question. I know this is a difficult one to answer,

38:59

but who was your favorite?

39:01

It fluctuates.

39:04

I'm going to say Michael Nesmith. I'm

39:07

going to say him. And I'll tell you why, because he

39:09

didn't do the reunions, the

39:11

early reunions. He did. And I was lucky enough, I flew

39:13

over to the States to go and see, when it was Peter

39:16

and Mickey and Mike. And

39:18

I got an interview with Mike when he wasn't

39:20

doing interviews. I was so lucky. I just emailed

39:23

him. He went, yeah sure, when do you want to do it? Oh

39:26

my god and he's the

39:28

most excited I've ever been about an interview

39:30

and I said

39:31

look Mike I know you don't like talking about the monkeys he

39:33

said Ian you

39:34

can ask me anything you want about the monkeys. I

39:36

said all right Mike so when you're recording I don't want

39:38

to talk about the monkeys I'm only joking

39:41

you can ask me every about three minutes every time

39:43

I ask the question Ian I do not want to talk about the monkeys

39:45

I'm joking go on you ask me anything you want and

39:48

that was a real thrill because at the time I got

39:50

my first interview he He wasn't doing interviews and I

39:52

got him. And you know, it was,

39:54

you know, you must've worked with people who you look

39:56

up to. I don't know if you'd call them heroes, the people you

39:59

respect and admire.

40:00

big fan of. And it's a real thrill,

40:02

isn't it, when your career allows you

40:04

to work with someone who you have a deep

40:07

respect and love for. Absolutely. Especially

40:09

when they then talk to you as if you're the

40:12

same as them. You go, what?

40:14

What? That's ridiculous. And strangely

40:16

enough, this is, you're

40:19

going to think I must have known what you were going to say.

40:22

But I got a phone call one Sunday

40:24

afternoon for a friend of mine. It was the floor manager

40:27

on the Little and Large show. And they

40:29

said, can you play the bass guitar? And I said, a bit. They

40:32

said, can you play it enough to look as

40:34

if you're playing it if you mime? And I said,

40:37

yeah. They said, oh, do you know Daydream

40:39

Believer? And I said, I do. Yeah. So

40:41

he said, get up to the BBC studios

40:43

as soon as you can.

40:44

So I drove to the BBC. Yeah.

40:46

And they said, right, this is Davy Jones. You're

40:49

going to be the bass player behind him, but you have to

40:51

sing the harmony for Daydream Believer

40:53

with him. This is amazing. So I sang Daydream

40:55

Believer with Davy Jones on the Lifford and Arte show.

40:58

This is amazing. And this is honestly, it

41:01

really does sound like we've planned this. I

41:04

used to run a YouTube channel called Rare Monkeys

41:06

and it's still up there. I've lost the login, so

41:08

I can't get in.

41:10

That clip is on that channel. Well, I'm there.

41:12

Yeah. I'm checking that out straight after. That

41:15

is hilarious. That is absolutely

41:17

hilarious and wonderful. Oh, I'm going to have a

41:19

look at that later. That's that. I've seen that clip

41:21

a dozen times and I've never noticed

41:24

Why would you? You look at them, why

41:26

would you look at a bloke playing the bass? How funny.

41:29

I was lucky enough, Eddie Large became

41:31

a friend. You remember in 2016, everyone died,

41:35

David Bowie, Prince, George Michael, everyone

41:37

died. And there are all these tributes.

41:40

I remember being my producer,

41:42

Catherine Kip, thinking, we should have said

41:44

this to these people before they died. We've got

41:46

this wrong. So we did a thing where

41:48

we would get older comedians

41:51

or older people that had meant something

41:53

to us to come on the show, we'd invite them on. We

41:55

had Paul Daniels and we had David

41:57

Hamilton and Tommy Cannon. and

41:59

we had Eddie

42:00

Large. And some of them were waiting

42:02

for the punch because they knew me from the 11 o'clock

42:04

show and that's kind of sarcastic. And some of them

42:06

were really waiting for the sucker

42:09

punch and it didn't come. It was all affection. And

42:11

I became friends with Eddie Large and he

42:13

hadn't done a show for ages. He'd lost his

42:15

bottle. He'd lost his nerve. And

42:18

I kept saying to him, how about if I put on a

42:20

Q&A show where I host it, you get all

42:22

the money, I'll do all the publicity. You haven't got to do anything

42:25

and people would I've got no interest

42:27

in doing it. And about three months later,

42:29

he said,

42:30

he emailed me going, how would this work if we did

42:32

do it? He said, I want to, he lived in Portishead.

42:35

He said, I want to do it in Portishead. I want to be able to walk

42:37

to the venue. What would it be like?

42:39

And so I put on this show in the, you know, the

42:41

community hall in Portishead. And

42:44

it was so lovely because the first

42:47

half was him doing a talk.

42:49

And the first five, 10 minutes, shitting

42:52

himself. You could see it. I'm at one

42:54

side of the stage just in case he froze. And

42:56

his lovely wife, Pat, was at the other

42:59

side just in case he froze.

43:00

10 minutes into it, five minutes into it, he

43:03

became that performer again. He clicked

43:05

and he kicked in and he

43:07

became that performer again. And it was such a lovely

43:09

evening because it was an evening full of love, people

43:12

celebrating him, listening to these wonderful

43:14

stories. And it was delightful.

43:18

Fast forward a few years, he died during COVID,

43:20

of COVID, heart problems and COVID.

43:23

And when COVID ended, there was a lovely

43:25

portrait done of him that was being unveiled

43:28

at the Winter Gardens in Blackpool, I think

43:30

it was,

43:30

and we got invited, I got invited up. And

43:33

Tommy Cannon, Tommy Cannon came over

43:35

to me and went, all right, Ian, how's it going?

43:37

And we had a lovely chat and they were making

43:40

a statue of Bobby Ball and he said, I don't

43:42

understand why we broke the records

43:44

for the Winter Garden and I don't

43:47

know, there's not even a plaque.

43:48

What have I got to do? I said, Tom, you

43:50

know what you've got to do? You have to die. You

43:53

have to die before you get

43:55

the recognition because that's how we do it in this

43:57

society and it's nuts. Yes, absolutely.

44:00

And straight enough, I do

44:02

pursue those people, because I think

44:04

that this is an opportunity to talk to them. I've spoken

44:06

to a few, yeah, Freddie Davis, Freddie

44:09

Pariface Davis. Oh, wow, okay.

44:11

And I've spoken to Tommy on this, it was just lovely.

44:14

I am, this may be a secret,

44:16

I may have to cut this out, but I am, for me,

44:19

this is a beautiful thing, because I got put

44:21

in touch with Anita Harris, by

44:24

Freddie Davis. He said, you should talk to

44:26

Anita, she's lovely. She'd, you'll love

44:28

Anita, she's lovely. And I said, I

44:30

do love Anita. And my father's

44:32

favorite song was one of her hits. And

44:34

she rang me up before Christmas and said, do

44:37

you want to do this thing? Then I said, I'd love to, yeah, yeah.

44:39

And I said, mostly because I want to tell

44:41

you how much I love loving you,

44:44

the song loving you. And I said, it was my father's most

44:46

favorite song. And she started

44:48

singing it. Oh, mate.

44:50

And it makes like that.

44:52

I cried, I cried on the, I said, now you'll have to stop,

44:54

I'm crying. I can't listen to this. It

44:57

was most beautiful thing.

44:58

That's magic. I

45:01

see it hitting you there. I can see it hitting you

45:03

there. Look at that. Isn't that wonderful? Thank you

45:05

for sharing that. There

45:07

we are. There we go. God, well, yeah,

45:10

the monkeys, the fantastic monkeys.

45:12

I am a believer. There we go. Thank

45:14

you. They're in, they're

45:17

in. Where do we go? I realize I'm talking way too much.

45:20

I tell you where we're going next. The next thing I would

45:22

like to put in the time capsule is.

45:26

Right, for anyone not subscribing the Acast

45:28

Plus version of this podcast where you get it ad-free,

45:31

here are some ads to help pay

45:33

for the making of this adventure. Won't be long.

45:37

Welcome back. If you'd like to not have

45:40

this podcast interrupted, then do have

45:42

a look at Acast Plus. The link is in the description

45:44

of this episode. For the rest of us, time

45:47

to get back to the lovely Ian Lee. See

45:49

you at the end. The

45:51

next thing I would like to put in the time capsule

45:54

is radio. because

45:57

radio has fed my kids

45:59

and put a roof.

46:00

over my head for kind of 20 years,

46:02

a bit longer actually. My first radio

46:04

show was about 97 and 98. And

46:07

I have enjoyed my journey

46:09

through radio and discovering who I am

46:11

as a presenter and what I am as a presenter.

46:13

And I like to think I

46:15

got somewhere pretty unique.

46:18

I've fallen out of love with it slightly. And that's

46:21

why I brought it in because I'd like to try and reignite

46:23

my passion for it. I don't really listen very much because it's

46:25

changed massively. And

46:27

I am a big fan of phone-in radio And

46:30

it's all very political now. And it's all very,

46:32

we're gonna point at these people and hate them and

46:34

that's what it's about. There's very little love. And

46:38

I particularly like late night radio, 10 till

46:40

one o'clock at night for me was always

46:43

my favorite slot because I think magic

46:45

happens at that time. There's real magic.

46:47

And it takes a special kind of person

46:50

to phone up a radio station at quarter past 12 at

46:52

night, quarter past midnight. No

46:54

one's doing that radio anymore, apart from a guy on

46:56

BBC Manchester, a guy called Alan Bezic. He's

46:59

the only person doing that and he will be gone soon

47:01

because of the changes. The only radio

47:03

I really listen to now, Alan Bezic, bit of James O'Brien,

47:06

and I listen to Capitol, because

47:09

my kids get in the car, can we put Capitol

47:11

on? The first few times, Jesus has got to listen to

47:13

this absolute crap. But

47:15

I love it, I love it, I love

47:17

it. I love

47:18

the fact I'd be driving, and I like quite

47:20

a lot of the music, some of it I don't like, but I do like quite

47:23

a lot of it. But being in the car with

47:25

my two boys, Kim, who's now 11,

47:27

came on, sat next to me, singing

47:29

along. And we have this gag. Now I

47:31

go, did you write this one, Kim? He goes, yes, I did.

47:34

And he just sings along. Sings along

47:36

to some songs that are quite rude in their

47:38

lyrics. Really quite

47:41

racy stuff. There's a song called WAP, W-A-P.

47:47

Well, you've said the C word, so I can say this.

47:48

What it means is, I can't

47:52

look at you and say it.

47:54

WAP stands for Wet Ass

47:56

Pussy. Hahahaha

48:00

I think it was my nickname at school.

48:02

Oh,

48:05

let's tickle that.

48:09

I pickled that a second. And

48:12

so my 11-year-old singing along to a song

48:15

called Wet Ass Pussy. I

48:17

don't think, you know, they censor it for the radio,

48:20

so Ass Pussy won't be in there. But knowing

48:22

that, and he's singing it at the top

48:25

of his voice. I'm thinking this

48:27

is the coolest and weirdest thing

48:29

ever. And

48:31

he's thrilled because these young presenters,

48:34

some of these young presenters on Capitol follow

48:36

me on Twitter, you know? And

48:38

when I tell him that, they're like, oh my God,

48:40

that's so cool, that's sick. Oh my God, that's sick.

48:43

OMG, they don't even say, oh my God, they go, OMG,

48:45

that's sick. So I

48:48

enjoy that and I didn't think that nearly 50, that's

48:50

what, that will be the main radio station

48:53

that I listen to. And this wonderful stuff happens

48:55

on radio. I did a show a few years ago, a little

48:58

tall, called Ian Lee versus

49:00

Radio. And I would play some

49:03

of the bits where radio has gone wrong.

49:04

And there are so

49:07

many clips of people

49:09

phoning up and saying rude stuff. And it,

49:11

okay, well, we can't have that. We're gonna cut you off. There's

49:14

a lovely bit. There was a radio presenter, Anna

49:16

Rayburn, who's kind of the first

49:18

ever, what you might call, she would

49:20

hate this term, but it's a shorthand

49:23

agony

49:23

on the radio. She dealt with people's problems. And

49:26

I remember she worked at LBC with me.

49:28

We didn't really get on, but that's okay. I still

49:30

have respect for her. And she

49:32

was doing a show about the history of words,

49:35

where words come from. And someone

49:37

texted in saying, oh

49:40

God, what was the word?

49:42

This isn't it, I can't remember a bit. It was something

49:44

like, oh, we have a lovely text here from Steve

49:47

to talk about the word dick rubber. and

49:49

he says the word dick rubber comes from sailors

49:52

in the old day who when they swore would rub

49:54

their dicks on a bible. She

49:57

read it out straight,

49:59

face.

50:00

And we're all in the office going, oh

50:02

my God, she's just said that, you know. And

50:05

that was wonderful. And also, I never

50:07

got caught out, but the people that would phone in with

50:09

fake, rude names, and of course the

50:12

big one was Mike

50:14

Paws Hunt. You say those words

50:17

together, you've got that. And I've heard that go out a few

50:19

times. My favorite one, and then I'll be quiet,

50:21

Nicki Campbell, who I love and I think is great,

50:24

on a BBC Five live breakfast show was

50:26

talking, have you heard this clip, was talking about

50:29

North Kent Hunt.

50:33

He gets it wrong and he says the North C

50:35

word and it's really embarrassing. He goes, okay, I'm really sorry.

50:37

I apologize for that.

50:39

And then an hour later, he says, people are still talking

50:41

about the North Cunt. Oh, I've done it again. That's

50:43

on YouTube. I

50:46

recommend people go and listen to that. North Kent

50:48

Hunt, Nicki Campbell, it's wonderful. Oh my word.

50:51

Years ago, see, now you're too young to know this, but years

50:53

ago I did a radio show for which was the forerunner

50:56

of KYTV. Radioactive. That's right.

50:58

Oh God, Oh God, no, I'm not too young for that. Oh, right, okay.

51:00

Well, one of the characters on that that we had occasionally

51:03

was Mike Hunt. Was

51:05

it? And we only put it in because we did it

51:07

once and thought we're gonna get in

51:09

trouble for this. And nobody said a thing.

51:11

Oh, how wonderful. So we did it again and

51:13

we kept doing it. We did it over

51:15

and over again until right at the end of, I

51:18

think, series seven, we were

51:20

called in and they said, one or two people

51:22

have said that actually the way that you say that, it sounds,

51:26

we went, what?

51:27

Oh, no, no, no, no, no, this is a long running

51:29

character. We can't change the name now. And they

51:31

went, okay, as long as you don't mean it, we got away

51:33

with it. As long as you don't mean it. No, but you

51:35

don't mean it. Oh no, we don't mean it, sir. You can say my country

51:37

as long as you don't mean it. And we had

51:39

another character played by Helen Atkinson Wood who

51:42

was a parody of Anna Rayburn, which

51:45

we called Anna Raby's. Oh my

51:47

God, isn't that wonderful? It

51:49

all links up. They

51:52

were up until quite recently repeating those on

51:54

BBC Four Extra. Yeah, that's right. So

51:57

you probably

51:57

got to check for about three pence through all.

52:00

that much. That was early 80s,

52:02

wasn't it? I would imagine. And

52:04

quite often comedy from late 70s, early 80s,

52:06

it doesn't stand up because it's funny

52:09

at the time it doesn't stand up. I would say a lot

52:11

of radioactive still stands

52:13

up. It's still very, very fast. There

52:15

were bits you go, shit, did they just do

52:17

that? And obviously the talent

52:20

on it was incredible. We're talking about the 11 o'clock show

52:22

and the talent that exploded, the talent

52:24

that came from that show. And

52:27

yeah, a lot of that still stands up and is still

52:29

very, very

52:30

funny. It's nice. We did a tour not

52:32

long ago and we played Edinburgh. And because

52:34

we're lazy bastards, we basically said we're going to

52:36

do it as a retrospective. And we took sketches

52:38

that we'd done on the radio and we put them

52:41

together in a show. And it

52:43

went down a storm. And it was exactly

52:45

the script. So it's really interesting that

52:47

you write a joke, you know, 40, oh

52:50

God, yeah, 40 years ago. But

52:52

it's still funny. But because they weren't just silly, Lots

52:55

of them were just silly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it wasn't topical.

52:57

And it wasn't necessarily of the time.

52:59

And

53:00

we need more silly. I

53:02

miss silly. You know, I'm a lot

53:04

of my best radio shows. We're just nonsense, absolute

53:06

nonsense, you know. And yeah, I miss silly.

53:08

Yes, my favourite opening to any show was a

53:10

phone-in, interestingly enough, and said,

53:13

okay, so we got our first caller on the line, and

53:15

the caller started by saying, okay, yeah, look,

53:17

if I could just change the subject, he said, well, we haven't

53:20

got one yet. I'm

53:23

daft. And then the person said, oh, oh, OK,

53:25

well, I'll call back later then. That

53:29

was it. Dark. And that

53:31

shows, you know, shows like that

53:33

were the inspiration for things like The Day Today,

53:35

you know, the the on the hours

53:37

it was on the radio and then The Day Today, you know,

53:39

these we're going to completely skewer

53:42

what radio sounds like we're going to we're going to get

53:44

TV and we're going to we're going to really take the

53:46

piss and use that format. Yeah, I mean,

53:48

well, for a long time, we thought maybe that

53:50

was the case, but you don't really have the

53:52

nerve to claim that somebody else is creative

53:54

stuff. And then actually rather sweetly,

53:57

Steve Coogan and Patrick Marber both said that

53:59

they were a big.

54:00

fans of it when they were students and they took the idea.

54:03

So they said it themselves. How great. How

54:05

lovely. And wonderful to acknowledge that, because

54:07

that doesn't happen very often in this business. It was my

54:10

idea, I can do it with you. I came up with it, you know.

54:12

So yeah, I think

54:14

that show was integral. Oh, that's

54:16

nice. There's so much

54:18

about radio that is absolutely brilliant

54:21

and you're right to put it into the time capsule. And

54:23

I've had a fantastic time on many things

54:25

that I've done on radio, particularly at Capitol Radio,

54:27

I had some great times there. there was a

54:29

time when they used to do comedy shows. I

54:32

don't remember that. Okay. Yeah. I'll send you

54:34

some recordings. Yeah, please do. Yeah. It says

54:36

a thing called the Encyclopedia of Rock, which

54:38

when you're talking about having cast members, I

54:40

think that had Tim McInerney,

54:43

Dawn French. Incredible. The

54:45

castess is ridiculous. And it was presented

54:47

by my friend Jeremy, who I spoke about

54:49

earlier. Jeremy, the monkey's Pascal.

54:51

There we go. And Angus, Angus Deaton was the other

54:53

presenter. But they did a brilliant thing where

54:55

whenever anybody who was a tall famous

54:58

came into Capitol radio, they would nab them and

55:00

say, could you say these knives? They

55:04

would just record them, and then they'd write a sketch

55:06

around it. How great, how great. Oh, yes,

55:08

send me that if you've got any of those. I love stuff

55:10

like that. The trust of people doing things like that. I remember

55:12

Elton John actually standing

55:14

there saying, you want me to just say these words? They're

55:17

just, yes,

55:18

yes, no, I didn't. He

55:21

said, you want me to record that? What are

55:23

you gonna put between it? And they said, we'll just write

55:26

some funny stuff around it. And he went, you

55:28

could write anything. couldn't you? And they went,

55:30

yeah, but you know, but we won't. He went,

55:32

Oh, gives a fuck. I just did it. See

55:35

a PR team surrounding a style

55:37

will not let you do that. They wouldn't let you anywhere near

55:39

them. No to do that. Brilliant. No.

55:42

Are you a racist? Yes, I am. You know, you just

55:44

it's easy to get them to say anything you like. But

55:46

Michael, we'll talk about your politics in a minute. Let's carry on

55:48

with the time capsule. No,

55:52

I'd like to bang on about it. How

55:56

brilliant, how brilliant. Yeah, absolutely

55:58

amazing and yes, well, we're lucky.

56:00

to have worked in radio, I think. Oh God, yeah, it's

56:02

a privilege. What privilege that, you know,

56:04

I've done kind of pretty much every slot that

56:07

people will choose to fall asleep to

56:09

me and people say, oh, I don't think this is really the fall asleep

56:11

check. It's the greatest compliment you could ever pay

56:13

to a late night phone

56:15

in host. You know, you fell asleep listening

56:18

to me. Wow, you know, are you inviting me into your bedroom,

56:20

into your car, into your bathroom, into wherever

56:23

you've invited me in. Thank you for

56:25

that. Real privilege. Real privilege. Yes.

56:28

The BBC 4AA at a broadcasting house, it used

56:30

to have a false jukebox

56:32

in it, and in it you could listen to

56:35

bloopers. Oh. I wonder

56:37

if they

56:37

still got a recording of it somewhere. That's

56:39

wonderful. They had the famous, the

56:41

man who claimed he wasn't drunk, but

56:43

who was talking about the lighting up of the fleet. Have

56:46

you ever heard that record? I've not heard that one. Just

56:48

a very drunk, well, he was joining me now

56:51

as a wind full of the fleet.

56:53

I had a moment now

56:55

to light up, or light up. Oh,

56:58

oh, look at that. Isn't

57:00

that lovely? Oh my, well, the fits

57:02

all, fits all lit up. Oh, it's like fairy

57:04

lights. It's such a funny.

57:07

I love it. One final one before we move on.

57:09

My favorite one, commercial radio

57:11

has a seven second delay. So if you phone up and

57:13

swear, I can dump it, it doesn't get broadcast. BBC

57:15

local radio doesn't kids, do that information

57:18

as you will. And there was a great, there was a phone in on

57:20

BBC London, later night, my friend James Mack's

57:22

hosting it and he says to call her, so what

57:24

do you think about Boris Johnson then? Well, I

57:26

think he's a cunt. And

57:29

that's on YouTube as well. Go and look for that.

57:31

There is the famous one, which I think is Pete Murray

57:33

from way back. It's the pause

57:36

at the end of what he says

57:37

that is the really funny thing about it. It's because

57:39

he said, we've got a record here from Janet who

57:41

sadly, a husband of 55 years, Jack. Dear

57:45

Jack has just passed away

57:47

recently. She said, could you just play

57:49

something to cheer me up? So I hope this does it

57:51

for you, Janet. Here's Clodagh Rogers

57:53

with Jack in a Box. And

57:58

then before the music starts...

58:00

There's a moment where you can tell he's gone, oh shit.

58:04

Then he plays the music. Love

58:07

it, I love it. And live radio like that,

58:09

how beautiful. How beautiful. Beautiful

58:11

thing. So let's treasure it and let's

58:13

put it in there. Where are we now? We're

58:16

number four? We're on number four. So which one of your

58:18

five are you going to reject? This one

58:20

I'm gonna put in. Japan, I'm rejecting

58:22

you, will come to you another day. I'm gonna put

58:24

in ADHD, Attention

58:27

Deficit Hyperactive Disorder. because

58:30

I retrained a couple

58:32

of years ago as a counselor, diploma

58:34

in counseling, and that's now what I

58:36

do for a living. It's my full-time job. And

58:39

on the course,

58:40

I was nervous because at school, I wasn't very good. I

58:42

was not particularly a nice person at school, but

58:44

I just couldn't sit still in a lesson. I couldn't listen.

58:47

I couldn't learn average GCSEs,

58:50

awful A levels. Just couldn't do it. I

58:52

thought it was because some of the teachers told me, I

58:54

was naughty and I was thick. That's what I was

58:56

told. Imagine a teacher saying

58:58

to a kid, well, you're naughty and you're thick,

59:01

you know, you'll never amount to anything. That's why.

59:03

And it may have been right on that. But on the course,

59:06

a few months into it, one of the teachers, lovely

59:08

lady called Sally, went, well, of course, you're

59:10

ADHD, aren't you?

59:11

Said no. She went, oh,

59:14

maybe you should get tested for it. So

59:17

I did. Some

59:19

doctors will do it on the NHS, but it's like

59:21

a 12 month waiting list. And I was impatient because

59:23

I'm ADHD. So I got in touch with a psychiatrist

59:26

and you fill out a form and

59:28

you answer some questions. And he came

59:30

back and went, yeah, you are one

59:33

of the most ADHD people I have ever met

59:35

in my life. And it was,

59:37

he diagnosed me as bipolar at the same time.

59:39

And it was the most amazing thing.

59:42

I ended the Zoom call

59:44

and I phoned up my friend and went, I'm

59:46

ADHD. Because

59:49

it was suddenly, it explained everything

59:52

in my life, almost everything in my life.

59:55

and I started reading a book about it. And

59:57

I would keep finding my friend and going,

59:59

my

1:00:00

God, the fact that I don't recognize faces.

1:00:02

I don't recognize faces. There

1:00:04

are a few, you know, you've been on television a lot,

1:00:06

so you're kind of locked in. But if I

1:00:08

meet someone, I don't recognize face. I

1:00:11

don't remember names, cannot remember anybody's

1:00:13

name. Thank God you've got it written on your Zoom screen because

1:00:15

I would struggle.

1:00:17

There was a weird one. Like we had this, we

1:00:19

used to have this joke. If we were out and about having

1:00:21

a meal, I could not hear what

1:00:23

the person opposite was saying. I go, oh,

1:00:26

there's too much hubbub. And we just thought

1:00:28

that was a weird thing. That's part of being

1:00:30

neurodiverse for some people. Our

1:00:32

brains can't filter out noise,

1:00:34

like non-neurodiverse people. The

1:00:38

fact that I take rejection so

1:00:40

badly, someone can say, no, I don't wanna

1:00:42

go to the pictures with you. And for days I'll

1:00:44

be going, oh my God, they hate me. Sobbing

1:00:47

about

1:00:47

it, relationship ended, relationship

1:00:50

that hadn't lasted very long. I'll be devastated for

1:00:53

months. So there are all these things

1:00:56

that I just thought were normal, that everyone

1:00:58

did. And it turns out not everyone

1:01:00

does. And it's because my brain

1:01:02

is wired differently. And it's brought

1:01:05

me a lot of peace because I can now look back at school

1:01:07

and go,

1:01:08

I had no chance there. You know, it wasn't

1:01:10

a thing then. People didn't recognize it. I

1:01:12

had no chance in school because the way they

1:01:14

taught, the way schools teach does

1:01:17

not work for my brain. I have to watch

1:01:19

something, write it down at the same

1:01:21

time, and then highlight it. I need

1:01:24

at least a three tier system

1:01:26

for it to go in. And it has to be visual for

1:01:28

me for it to have an impact. You

1:01:30

know, it's explained everything. It's

1:01:32

also

1:01:33

what has made my radio shows unique

1:01:37

because I would, I remember I worked

1:01:39

at BBCWM once and there was a

1:01:41

new boss. And my show started at

1:01:43

two o'clock in the afternoon and at 10 to

1:01:45

two, I went down and she said, what's on the show today?

1:01:48

I said, I don't know. She goes, what's on that

1:01:50

paper you've got? always a blank piece of paper to write down

1:01:52

stuff. She said, and after we said,

1:01:54

we'll talk afterwards and she called me and she said you cannot

1:01:57

go into a show without anything planned.

1:02:00

I said, was it a good show? She went, yeah, no, today

1:02:02

was a good show. I said, well, that's how I work. I

1:02:04

cannot plan stuff. And it's given

1:02:06

the fact that I can go off on 100 different tangents,

1:02:09

as

1:02:10

people may have heard, today, that's

1:02:13

what's made my radio shows. The

1:02:15

reason that a lot of people like them, it's also the reason a lot

1:02:17

of people hate them because there's not really a narrative. So

1:02:20

I would like to put ADHD in there and I want

1:02:22

to celebrate it. I think it's a wonderful

1:02:24

thing once it's recognized. And I

1:02:27

think it's a superpower. And I

1:02:29

just, I absolutely love the fact

1:02:31

I got that diagnosis because I can start being

1:02:33

me. And you're not a naughty boy and you're not thick. No,

1:02:36

no. It was like getting the instruction

1:02:38

manual for life. It

1:02:40

was like, oh, okay, right. Now

1:02:43

I can apply this stuff and I can find

1:02:46

ways of working around it. There is,

1:02:49

I'm underneath my stairs. On the stairs,

1:02:51

there's a packet of pills that

1:02:53

I need to take upstairs. All I need to do,

1:02:55

take them upstairs, put them in my bedside cabinet.

1:02:58

They've been there for three weeks. Because

1:03:00

every time I walk past it, I go, I'll do it next time.

1:03:03

That's wonderful. I love that

1:03:05

stuff. So ADHD and all

1:03:07

neurodiversity, I want shrammed

1:03:09

up your time capsule please, Mr. Fenton Stephens.

1:03:12

Yes, yes indeed. Well, I'm very happy

1:03:14

to take that and to treasure it. Because

1:03:17

I have two autistic grandchildren. Okay.

1:03:21

And one who suffers from PDA, which is-

1:03:23

What's PDA? PDA is Pathological

1:03:26

Demand Avoidance. Okay. So,

1:03:28

pathologically, she cannot cope

1:03:31

with what appears to be somebody telling her

1:03:33

what

1:03:33

to do. Incredible. It

1:03:35

sends her into complete panic. Her brain interprets,

1:03:38

put your shoes on, has an attack. Yeah.

1:03:41

And so she goes into either flight or fight mode.

1:03:44

So you have to say, I think it'd

1:03:46

be a good idea to put shoes on sometime.

1:03:48

Wonderful. What do you think? And she says,

1:03:51

I don't want to put them on. You go, okay, you don't have to put

1:03:53

them on. And a minute later, she'll say, I'm

1:03:55

going to put my shoes on. You go, okay.

1:03:57

It's incredibly difficult, as you can imagine.

1:04:00

it makes life very difficult. She

1:04:02

doesn't go to school. She can't cope with

1:04:04

that system. As you say, school

1:04:06

is not designed for people like that. – When

1:04:09

I said wonderful, the wonderful was

1:04:12

when you were describing the coping mechanism

1:04:15

that I'm assuming it's her parents, but the family

1:04:18

have developed and are developing to

1:04:21

be able to integrate her into family

1:04:24

and into society. Because there

1:04:27

are some people that wouldn't do

1:04:29

that.

1:04:30

It could get unpleasant and nasty.

1:04:32

Well, I'm sure in the past, people would have absolutely

1:04:34

just seen her as a naughty child.

1:04:37

Yeah. Do as you're told. Yeah, make

1:04:39

her do it. I remember phone-ins on

1:04:42

radio stations, late 90s, early 2000s, is

1:04:44

this ADHD a thing? It's just kids

1:04:46

being naughty, isn't it? Because we didn't have the

1:04:49

understanding. No. I would suggest that

1:04:51

some schools

1:04:52

are significantly better and some

1:04:55

schools, You

1:04:56

know, they ain't got enough money, ain't got enough teachers, they've

1:04:58

got to do all these tests that they have to do.

1:05:01

Some schools are learning to be

1:05:03

accommodating to neurodiversity

1:05:06

and different behaviors. And also the

1:05:08

situation with your granddaughter,

1:05:11

she's still a human being. She's still a

1:05:13

wonderful, you know, life form.

1:05:15

She's, I bet you have so much fun with her. Amazingly

1:05:18

inventive. She's an incredible amount

1:05:20

of fun. She's very, very funny. She's got a brilliant

1:05:23

sense of humor. Thank you for sharing that

1:05:25

about your granddaughter, because I think

1:05:27

it's important. I'm celebrating

1:05:29

mine because it really has a positive impact.

1:05:33

Different neurodiversities can be

1:05:36

challenging for the family,

1:05:38

but also the person. We do

1:05:40

not live in a neurodiverse

1:05:41

world. The person who

1:05:43

is, and I like to say, I am ADHD. I

1:05:46

don't like to say, I have, I

1:05:49

am. People use different phrases that

1:05:51

works for them. That works for me. It can be

1:05:53

so difficult for the person who

1:05:56

is autistic, ADHD, whatever

1:05:58

it may be. They're

1:06:00

all human beings. There are wonderful

1:06:02

things to be found in all these things. As you say,

1:06:04

you've found that for yourself. And

1:06:06

for you, it's a real plus. You've

1:06:08

been given this superpower. You describe it as. And

1:06:11

now I think that within all of them, if

1:06:13

you search, if you give it the time,

1:06:16

you will find those superpowers in people.

1:06:18

Give it the time. You have to give it the time.

1:06:21

And not everyone does. My last ever radio

1:06:23

show a couple of weeks ago on my

1:06:25

breakfast show I was doing, we'd had a caller

1:06:27

throughout the... I wasn't there long, six months. caller called

1:06:30

Judy who was dealing with cancer

1:06:32

and she also had an autistic son who couldn't speak,

1:06:35

who didn't speak, who chose not to speak.

1:06:37

The very very last show Judy found up saying, I

1:06:40

just want to thank you for doing

1:06:42

the show and also my son, oh I'm gonna cry,

1:06:47

my son wants a word thinking, oh

1:06:49

my god and he came on he said

1:06:51

thank you Ian Lee And she said

1:06:55

he hasn't spoken for however

1:06:57

long. And

1:07:00

that he spoke, he spoke.

1:07:02

That did me here. It's doing me here now.

1:07:05

How beautiful. And that's down

1:07:07

to her patience and love and

1:07:10

encouragement. And look, we're both getting

1:07:12

a little misty. That's something

1:07:15

in mind. I knew a young

1:07:17

lad. I did pantomime and this

1:07:19

young lad's mother wrote to me and said, could I

1:07:21

bring my son back to meet you? He's

1:07:23

autistic and he doesn't speak

1:07:25

very much and he's never laughed. And

1:07:28

we came to see the pantomime and halfway

1:07:30

through it, he became hysterical with laughter.

1:07:34

And, you know, the moment where

1:07:36

you're sitting, putting your makeup on

1:07:38

to do the 10 o'clock show on a pantomime, that's

1:07:41

the thing that makes me go, ah, yeah, this is good.

1:07:43

Yeah.

1:07:44

We don't know how our workers touch

1:07:46

people. I don't say that in an arrogant, egotistical

1:07:49

way. Sometimes we're lucky enough. Sometimes I'll

1:07:51

get an email or I'll be at a show and someone

1:07:53

will come up and just say, that show you did on loneliness.

1:07:56

That was me. but we

1:07:59

are so blessed.

1:08:00

in the career that I've had and your career

1:08:02

that is still ongoing, that we will

1:08:04

be making a difference to people. You know, we talked

1:08:06

about how a lot of this stuff isn't actually

1:08:08

important. To some people it is. And

1:08:10

what a great story. Never laugh before we laughed

1:08:13

at your show. Wow. I know, it's

1:08:15

amazing. But I mean, we're lucky that we

1:08:17

have access to a lot

1:08:19

of people. But I think that actually your attitude

1:08:21

in life, as you say, you never

1:08:24

know how you're affecting people. And I think that

1:08:26

having the attitude of smiling at people, saying

1:08:29

good morning to people,

1:08:30

being patient with people. It

1:08:32

can have an enormous effect. It's much easier

1:08:34

to go, oh, get out of my way. I've

1:08:37

got important things to do. Just get out of my way,

1:08:39

everyone, because I'm coming through. If

1:08:41

you can actually teach yourself to go, well, hang

1:08:43

on a minute, I'm not as important as I think

1:08:46

I am. I'm sure it would make a difference

1:08:48

in the world. I

1:08:50

can also understand why people don't, I remember being

1:08:52

young and thrusting and I am immortal.

1:08:55

I will never die and I'm really, really important and

1:08:57

I know everything. And I think perhaps

1:08:59

it is a thing,

1:09:00

some people get it young, but I think it perhaps is a thing as

1:09:02

you get older, as you cross over

1:09:04

the halfway mark in this thing

1:09:06

called life, I think that can be a changing

1:09:08

point. Yeah, that halfway point for me is coming

1:09:10

soon. Gosh,

1:09:13

tell your face.

1:09:16

How

1:09:19

rude, how rude. No, ADHD,

1:09:22

that's you, you bloody ADHD people. Exactly,

1:09:24

outrageous. Saying outrageous things, honestly.

1:09:27

Couldn't stop myself, Michael, that's my excuse. Couldn't

1:09:30

stop it. Well,

1:09:32

I'm glad that you're proud of it and I'm glad that you see

1:09:34

it as a bonus and how lovely that you have it.

1:09:36

And also that finally these things

1:09:38

are being properly recognized. We

1:09:41

are getting there. We're a long way off, but we are definitely

1:09:43

getting there and I think that's wonderful. Yeah,

1:09:45

fantastic. You said

1:09:47

you'd make me laugh and you said you'd make me cry and you've done both

1:09:49

so. Oh, that wasn't the one that was supposed to make you

1:09:52

cry. Well, oh God, we're in trouble then. We'd

1:09:55

better move on to it. I think that's what's coming, is

1:09:57

it? Okay, so so

1:09:59

the.

1:12:00

He was props manager at the BBC for a while.

1:12:02

We went and worked in Pakistan for three months to

1:12:04

try and get some reunion. Didn't really work.

1:12:07

He told a massive lie while he was there.

1:12:10

He was a compulsive liar. And he told this huge

1:12:12

lie that my uncle had

1:12:14

been in a serious car accident and was dying.

1:12:16

And he had to go back and see him. It wasn't

1:12:18

true. He was having a kid born.

1:12:21

You know, that's what we were dealing with. So

1:12:24

I saw him very, very little. And

1:12:27

one day I found, I'm in the

1:12:29

12-step recovery, I'm an alcoholic and an addict,

1:12:32

and part of the 12-step recovery is making

1:12:34

amends with people. And one day I found

1:12:36

a watch and some pictures that I knew were important to him.

1:12:38

So I got in touch after not speaking for years, said, do you want

1:12:40

to meet up on our hand, this stuff over? And

1:12:42

my plan was to go in and

1:12:44

fucking lay into him.

1:12:45

And I got there and suddenly I

1:12:48

wasn't scared of him. Suddenly I wasn't intimidated.

1:12:50

And I was able to say, these

1:12:52

are the things that you did that had a negative impact

1:12:55

on my life. and I want you to know they had

1:12:57

a negative impact. I was also, Michael,

1:12:59

able to recognize my part in

1:13:02

it. Perhaps I could have reached

1:13:04

out earlier to you, but, you know, I, blah,

1:13:06

blah, blah, blah, blah. And at the end of it,

1:13:09

I said, do you know what? I'm not prepared

1:13:11

to call you dad yet, but if you're up for it, I'm interested

1:13:13

in seeing if we can have a relationship.

1:13:15

So we saw each other a couple of times, and

1:13:18

very, very shortly after that, he

1:13:21

got in touch, he said, I got pancreatic cancer and I'm

1:13:23

gonna die in six months. He

1:13:26

said two years, but then I spoke to his

1:13:28

wife and she said, I don't know where he's got that from, it's six months.

1:13:31

And

1:13:32

I'm really grateful I made peace with him before I knew

1:13:34

that.

1:13:35

And suddenly, this six months, and he got

1:13:37

really ill very, very quickly. And I got

1:13:40

to meet two of my half sisters and a half

1:13:42

brother, got to meet his wife,

1:13:44

who was wonderful, wonderful, wonderful people, so

1:13:46

generous to me, so kind. And

1:13:49

he died really, really quickly. And it was a shit death.

1:13:52

It was a really shit, horrible,

1:13:55

painful, morphine death,

1:13:57

horrible. And no. Well,

1:14:00

the positive of that is I got

1:14:02

to meet all my uncles and aunts again and my

1:14:04

cousins because they would visit while I was there

1:14:07

and I was really scared to go, Oh my God, I've not seen them for,

1:14:09

you know, however many years, this 15

1:14:11

years, this is going to be awful. Every

1:14:13

single one of them, not one of them criticized

1:14:16

me or had to go up me or my sister. Every single

1:14:18

one of them embraced me literally and

1:14:20

metaphorically and invited me back into

1:14:23

the family. I'm still reintegrated

1:14:25

and I should be in contact more, but

1:14:27

I find it very difficult. And

1:14:30

then he died. And then, you know, his

1:14:32

wife very kindly let me be a pallbearer at

1:14:35

the funeral. Let

1:14:38

me speak at the funeral. You know, I hadn't been

1:14:40

in his life for years and she, Margaret, let me speak

1:14:43

at the funeral. And,

1:14:46

you know, I just think, fucking

1:14:48

hell, what a fucking waste of time.

1:14:51

Why couldn't we? Why

1:14:53

couldn't we put whatever it was aside, talk

1:14:55

through it, fight through it if we needed

1:14:57

to. Why couldn't we do that and

1:15:00

then

1:15:00

get on with our lives of him as

1:15:03

my dad, me as his son? Why

1:15:05

couldn't we do that? And it is

1:15:07

such a waste of time and

1:15:09

such a waste of life. And so

1:15:12

I make sure with my, you know,

1:15:14

only my eldest met him. It

1:15:16

was difficult. Only my eldest met him when he would

1:15:18

have been three and my youngest

1:15:20

was a baby, but I didn't take

1:15:22

my baby to meet him. And then when he got

1:15:24

ill, I didn't really want

1:15:27

him to see him like that. So

1:15:29

only my youngest met him. He doesn't

1:15:31

remember. He was three, but I got one picture

1:15:33

of him with Alex and

1:15:38

fucking hell, Michael, what a waste of life. What

1:15:41

a waste of life. And we were talking earlier and I don't

1:15:43

know if it's in the podcast or if it was before, whatever, about

1:15:46

living

1:15:47

and about having to live and about, I don't want to be on

1:15:49

my deathbed thinking, I wish I'd seen

1:15:51

more of my kids. I wish I'd done that. So I

1:15:53

don't live with my kids, but I'm very much a part of

1:15:55

their life. They, you know, I

1:15:58

didn't know where my dad lived. They know where I live. I

1:16:00

see them every other week, every week, I'm gonna

1:16:02

go and see one of them in a concert tonight. My

1:16:04

ex-wife is incredibly open

1:16:07

to that. There's nothing, she's wonderful

1:16:09

about that. And I make sure

1:16:12

I am there for my kids, whatever

1:16:15

they want. I don't necessarily mean financial

1:16:17

things, things. If they

1:16:19

need me, if they phone me up, I

1:16:21

make the time to speak to them. I listen to what

1:16:23

they're interested in. They've got their own YouTube

1:16:26

channels. I watch every single video they

1:16:28

put up, because I would

1:16:30

hate,

1:16:31

you know, only recently am I realising

1:16:33

shit, how difficult was it for him to

1:16:35

not see his son and his daughter? How difficult

1:16:38

was it for him? Yeah, you know, so

1:16:41

I think I want to put in there is the

1:16:43

wasted life of

1:16:45

not being with my dad. Absolutely.

1:16:48

Yeah. And there is always the

1:16:50

thought in your mind that had you spoken

1:16:52

to him the way you did eventually to begin

1:16:55

with, he might have seen the harm

1:16:57

in what he was doing. And in

1:16:59

a way, not changed,

1:17:01

but controlled it a bit more.

1:17:04

I don't think he was well. I think he

1:17:06

was an alcoholic. I think he was a dry

1:17:08

drunk. He used to drink when I was a kid and

1:17:10

then he stopped. And at that meeting,

1:17:13

that reconciliation, I said, I was able

1:17:15

to tell him, I'm an alcoholic and I'm a drug addict. And

1:17:18

I'm sorry, I'm sniffing off. And I'm

1:17:20

curious as to why you stopped drinking. And he said, I

1:17:23

was driving home drunk and I hit

1:17:25

a police motorbike and I vowed, I'm

1:17:27

never gonna drink ever again. And he stopped, stopped

1:17:29

like that. But I do think he was still

1:17:32

an addict in some

1:17:34

way. And so his addiction came out in sex. He

1:17:36

had to have something to change the way he felt. He had

1:17:38

to have something, something happened to him as a kid. I have

1:17:40

no idea what, but something happened to him as

1:17:42

a kid that meant he had to do

1:17:45

something to make him feel good. And

1:17:47

for him, it was sex. I don't know why

1:17:49

the kids were a part of it. You

1:17:51

know, that's a mystery to me. I don't get what that

1:17:54

is. But he wasn't

1:17:56

well, and I can see it now. Yeah, he was a bastard

1:17:58

to my mom, and I see that. And

1:18:00

he was a shit dad, but he was doing the best he could

1:18:02

with what he had. And he didn't have

1:18:04

a lot, but

1:18:05

he did the best he could. And

1:18:07

it's weird because it's one thing I can never change.

1:18:10

One thing I can never change. And I've pretty much

1:18:12

forgiven him. I went and visited his grave

1:18:14

last year and I took some lunch

1:18:16

and I sat there and I screamed at him and I shouted

1:18:18

at him and I cried for

1:18:21

him and I asked for his forgiveness.

1:18:25

But that's with me forever. That's one

1:18:27

thing that can't

1:18:28

go. What a waste. What a waste.

1:18:30

Yeah.

1:18:31

There's a very strange phrase that people say

1:18:33

a lot these days. I think it's a strange

1:18:35

phase. It's where they say, well, I need a little bit of me

1:18:37

time. And I always think

1:18:40

that

1:18:40

we should all say to that, well, you're with

1:18:42

you all the time.

1:18:45

I need less me time. What you

1:18:47

need is us time. That's

1:18:49

what you really need. And I think that

1:18:51

actually we're all led to believe that I just

1:18:53

need to be with myself, just something for me,

1:18:56

something that I want. And actually,

1:18:58

because of the nature of human beings, we

1:19:00

spend most of the time thinking about what

1:19:03

we want, and it would be a good thing to do

1:19:05

it less, I think. Yeah, I think,

1:19:07

well, I know it's proven that doing things for other

1:19:10

people makes us feel better, makes us feel

1:19:12

better. And for me,

1:19:15

because of that upbringing, family is

1:19:17

key.

1:19:17

I got divorced, and that's not something I'm particularly

1:19:19

proud of, but my partner now,

1:19:22

and my kids now, and,

1:19:25

you know, this is making me think, I need to reach out to my

1:19:27

dad's family because I've not spoken to them for a while,

1:19:29

my aunts and uncles, and actually I'm going to

1:19:31

get in touch with them this weekend. Because

1:19:34

it is easy for me, because I'm an addict,

1:19:36

one of the things that the disease of addiction is

1:19:39

it likes to isolate us. If I'm isolated,

1:19:41

then I'm stuck with my head. And if I'm stuck with my head, I

1:19:43

probably wanted some beer. And if I get some beer, I'm going

1:19:45

to want cocaine. You know, so it is

1:19:47

a disease of isolation. And I

1:19:50

struggle with reaching out

1:19:52

to people. I struggle with company. So

1:19:55

it becomes an effort. So if any of my family,

1:19:57

particularly on my dad's side, listening.

1:24:00

Hmm. Yeah,

1:24:02

I think it's coming through.

1:24:04

Okay, your number is...

1:24:08

...seven. Amazing,

1:24:10

isn't it? At least 10% of you went bloody

1:24:13

hell, he's right! Bye.

1:24:25

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